The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

[un barbu]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855

I should think that Johnson's very lucky that Lord Braxfield is no longer on the bench. This will do nicely without him, though.

[teamsaint]

So the Lib Dems, who not so long ago supported a referendum, are now the party of principles, who are going to stop Brexit all on their own.........

Well I suppose if they want to play with the older kids, They will have to learn to posture and put their own interests above those of the country as the Tories and Labour have.

Chances of a tory led government must have shot up. But then the Lib Dems like tory governments.

[Richard Barrett]

democracy as we know it

Which is a whole can of worms in itself of course. In very many arguments about politics you find people accusing each other of being anti-democratic, which proves only that there must be some deep disagreement as to what the meaning of "democracy" is. I (and no doubt you) would say that socialism represents the highest form of democracy, while others would strongly disagree, when what they're actually disagreeing with is how democracy is defined. So I don't generally feel comfortable using the word too much. We might applaud the Scottish judges for upholding the principle of parliamentary democracy, but who elected those judges? And so on.

[gurnemanz]

For dejected remainers it is not encouraging that Libdems are the only plausible refuge in these ludicrous times. For pro-Europeans it is thoroughly depressing to see the referendum result causing ongoing national agony and turmoil and the Goverment wasting its time trying to achieve something which isn't worth achieving and has indeed already been detrimental to our country before it has even been implemented. Anti-EU elements like to call us bad losers. Alas, we are all losers.

[teamsaint]

Plenty of remainers will be voting Labour, because Labour offer a plausible possible route to remaining.

If you are a remainer in a Labour /Tory marginal, the " principled " vote for the lib dems will be wasted, as so many other votes are under FPTP.

[Richard Barrett]

Plenty of remainers will be voting Labour, because Labour offer a plausible possible route to remaining.

In fact if you still want to hold onto some hope of remaining, voting Labour is by far the best bet unless you're in a LD/Tory seat. I think this will become clearer once election campaigns are underway. As far as I'm concerned the LDs' strategy now to ignore Leave voters isn't much better than the Tories' strategy to ignore Remainers. How is either going to lead to anything except more division? I can imagine that isn't a problem for the current fanatical makeup of the Tory party, but the LDs are supposed to be a voice of reason and consensus (or at least they were before they went into coalition with Cameron).

[ahinton]

In fact if you still want to hold onto some hope of remaining, voting Labour is by far the best bet unless you're in a LD/Tory seat. I think this will become clearer once election campaigns are underway. As far as I'm concerned the LDs' strategy now to ignore Leave voters isn't much better than the Tories' strategy to ignore Remainers. How is either going to lead to anything except more division? I can imagine that isn't a problem for the current fanatical makeup of the Tory party, but the LDs are supposed to be a voice of reason and consensus (or at least they were before they went into coalition with Cameron).

I suspect that most LDs now regret going into that fateful coalition. I agree that it would be most unwise for any party to ignore supporters of either side in the Brexit issue. However, voting Labour in the hope of UK remaining within EU seems dubious given that, whilst its deputy leader appears to support voters having another opportunity to make their wishes known, its leader continues to be coy about what it is that he supports. You mention voting Labour in an LD/Tory seat as an exception (presumably unless it's a very marginal one); that strikes a chord with me because not only has my constituency been Tory since 2020 and LD for years before that, the current MP manages to secure votes from some Labour supporters because of the high regard in which he is held by people of all parties as a constituency MP!

[teamsaint]

Labour policy is ro support a confirmatory referendun on any deal Given that Labour is absolutely certain to be one of tye two biggest parties, in any seat that is a clear Labour / Tory maginal, voting Labour should be a no brainer for remainers, I should have thought.also, Corbyn may be happy to Leave, but he is going to have to take the party with him in order to achieve that. For all of Swinson’s rhetoric, Corbyn and Labour are an essentially democratic outfit.

[Serial_Apologist]

Labour policy is ro support a confirmatory referendun on any deal Given that Labour is absolutely certain to be one of tye two biggest parties, in any seat that is a clear Labour / Tory maginal, voting Labour should be a no brainer for remainers, I should have thought.also, Corbyn may be happy to Leave, but he is going to have to take the party with him in order to achieve that. For all of Swinson’s rhetoric, Corbyn and Labour are an essentially democratic outfit.

And let's face it, whatever Corbyn's view is on leaving or remaining, if the choice is between remain or leave with an agreement - which would be in accordance with parliamentary majority voting against no deal - neither side of the divided public is left in a position to point a finger of blame. In any case, democratically agreed positions taken following debate are in principle, surely, far preferable to constant deferring to what leaders think, as if they are god-like all-determining figureheads.

[teamsaint]

And let's face it, whatever Corbyn's view is on leaving or remaining, if the choice is between remain or leave with an agreement - which would be in accordance with parliamentary majority voting against no deal - neither side of the divided public is left in a position to point a finger of blame. In any case, democratically agreed positions taken following debate are in principle, surely, far preferable to constant deferring to what leaders think, as if they are god-like all-determining figureheads.

Well quite.

BTW, do I win today’s typo prize ?

[Dave2002]

In any case, democratically agreed positions taken following debate are in principle, surely, far preferable to constant deferring to what leaders think, as if they are god-like all-determining figureheads.

But what are democratically agreed positions?

[Serial_Apologist]

Well quite.

BTW, do I win today’s typo prize ?

That depends on which typo!

[Serial_Apologist]

But what are democratically agreed positions?

Positions determined by vote following debate on motions at conference, no?

[Richard Barrett]

do I win today’s typo prize ?

You also win today's Best Slogan for Upcoming Election prize - "it's a no brainer if you're a remainer".

[Dave2002]

Positions determined by vote following debate on motions at conference, no?

I suspect that very few people have such a concept in mind. Also, relatively few people attend conferences, and many of the wider electorate are no doubt sceptical about the outcomes. You could define democracy in terms of process, but the definition could still be challenged if it didn’t fit with most people’s preconceptions.