The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

[gurnemanz]

In contrast I have to say I think Evan Davies is doing particularly well in the PM programme - thoughtful, and actually has the time to deliver meaningful content from contributors.

Seems to like his Lieder. We glimpsed him at the Barbican last year for Wolf's Italienisches Liederbuch with Jonas Kaufmann and Diana Damrau.

[Serial_Apologist]

More craic than crack, surely?

Too bottom drawer for my taste...

[Richard Barrett]

Too bottom drawer for my taste...

Speaking of drawers, or to be more precise pants that might happen to be in a state of incineration, Johnson today quoted an opinion poll to the effect that he is trusted by more people on the NHS than is Jeremy Corbyn. Which is apparently true, even though presumably people know that Johnson is almost certainly planning to sell off large parts of the NHS to US concerns, while Corbyn is constantly emphasising the need to have more public ownership rather than less. So how can anyone come to the conclusion that the proven liar Johnson is to be trusted on anything, let alone on this particular issue. I can only imagine that the pollsters' question went something like "who would you trust more with the NHS? that nice cuddly Boris or that rabid Marxist Corbyn?"

[Serial_Apologist]

Absolutely typical Today programme item. No time for Helena Kennedy to make a sensible contribution, particularly after Robinson had robbed some of those all too few seconds making a contribution of no worth compared to giving her space to develop - or perhaps better described as properly make - her point.

Spot on! - thanks for putting my points for me so well, CS

[MrGongGong]

Speaking of drawers, or to be more precise pants that might happen to be in a state of incineration, Johnson today quoted an opinion poll to the effect that he is trusted by more people on the NHS than is Jeremy Corbyn. Which is apparently true, even though presumably people know that Johnson is almost certainly planning to sell off large parts of the NHS to US concerns, while Corbyn is constantly emphasising the need to have more public ownership rather than less. So how can anyone come to the conclusion that the proven liar Johnson is to be trusted on anything, let alone on this particular issue. I can only imagine that the pollsters' question went something like "who would you trust more with the NHS? that nice cuddly Boris or that rabid Marxist Corbyn?"

I don't think this is indicative of BBC bias though
Boris Johnson is simply a lying little sh*t, about time he and his elk () were stopped from peddling b*llocks on the BBC.

[Richard Barrett]

I don't think this is indicative of BBC bias though

It's nothing to do with the BBC in fact. I just think that poll result beggars belief.

[Serial_Apologist]

It's nothing to do with the BBC in fact. I just think that poll result beggars belief.

I watched Part 2 of The Rise of the Nazis on BBC2 last night. Some emphasis is being laid on current relevance by the makers of this documentary, and one of the points made was that a disillusioned German working class flocked to Hitler in 1932 on a tide of allegations of the Communist Party preparing a coup from the top establishment and its press - for which there was in fact no material evidence - coupled with how they used Himmler's supposed charisma to gain support, despite the fact that he had offered no programme or policy platform other than "making Germany great agaiin". Well, the Nazis had to make maximum use of him, hadn't they? And the parallels are self-explanatory. A third point made, that democracy was still a new concept in 1932, clearly doesn't apply to our own time; but, observing the closed minds now having their day over Brexit, I am nevertheless getting a strong feeling of what it must have been like to have been in Germany at that stage. All of a sudden a single issue is being fetishised as some proving ground regarding "the People's" feelings about democracy, overlooking the entire complex of issues embraced in remaining or leaving which can only be resolved in a general election. I can't help wondering how many of those now proclaiming their faith in British sovereignty, while never being questioned by interviewers what precisely they mean by it, ever bothered to turn up to vote in pre-Brexit general elections, though I admit to having no evidence that they are offloading their guilt onto their opponents to prove this point.

[ahinton]

Speaking of drawers, or to be more precise pants that might happen to be in a state of incineration, Johnson today quoted an opinion poll to the effect that he is trusted by more people on the NHS than is Jeremy Corbyn. Which is apparently true, even though presumably people know that Johnson is almost certainly planning to sell off large parts of the NHS to US concerns, while Corbyn is constantly emphasising the need to have more public ownership rather than less. So how can anyone come to the conclusion that the proven liar Johnson is to be trusted on anything, let alone on this particular issue. I can only imagine that the pollsters' question went something like "who would you trust more with the NHS? that nice cuddly Boris or that rabid Marxist Corbyn?"

I don't even feel sure any longer that I can trust BoJo to tell lies, let alone the truth. The various opposition parties are being widely accused of cowardice in declining an General Election; I not only disagree with this stance but also cannot imagine for the life of me why BoJo seems to want one right now when netierh he nor any other party or possible coalition of parties could hope to achieve a mandate to govern.

Since you mention "public ownership", though, I do wish that people who do so call it "government ownership", which is what it is (and I do not mean to be pedantic in so saying - for example, no one gave me the opportunity to decline a small share in RBS when the government "took back control" of part of it and, since it did so, I haven't had what I didn't want in the first place)...

[Serial_Apologist]

I don't even feel sure any longer that I can trust BoJo to tell lies, let alone the truth. The various opposition parties are being widely accused of cowardice in declining an General Election; I not only disagree with this stance but also cannot imagine for the life of me why BoJo seems to want one right now when neither he nor any other party or possible coalition of parties could hope to achieve a mandate to govern.

Boris and his chums are probably hoping for support from Nigel Farage's lot: one word of approval from Nige, blazed all over the front pages, could seal it for them is the assumption.

Since you mention "public ownership", though, I do wish that people who do so call it "government ownership", which is what it is (and I do not mean to be pedantic in so saying - for example, no one gave me the opportunity to decline a small share in RBS when the government "took back control" of part of it and, since it did so, I haven't had what I didn't want in the first place)...

Be thankful for what you've been given!

Seriously, though one of the things that negatively sealed the fate of the nationalised sector was that what was taken into public ownership under the Attlee (and later in the case of Rolls-Royce Aeroengines, the Heath government) were ailing rather than the profitable companies that would have offered a head start in terms of financial viability to the Exchequer. They were taken over because they were deemed essential to national security - the utilities as infrastructural back-up to the private industrial competitiveness, Rolls-Royce for the RAF - and the original idea of a nationalised sector out-competing the private sector was ditched because the wealthy owners of the big conglomerates wouldn't stand for it. Funny when you think of the European nationalised forms now owning British water and other companies.

[Richard Barrett]

I can't help wondering how many of those now proclaiming their faith in British sovereignty, while never being questioned by interviewers what precisely they mean by it, ever bothered to turn up to vote in pre-Brexit general elections

Here is another similarity with the Trump situation in the USA. You can't persuade his supporters to stop supporting him on the grounds that everything he says is a pack of dangerous lies - their answer would be, to quote Mr Lydon, "we know, and we don't care". It's clear that the only strategy that's going to dislodge Trump in the USA is getting the Democrat vote out in larger numbers than in 2016. And so it is in the UK too. One of the (possibly unintended) (but possibly not) results of the Cameron-May-Johnson escalation is that large numbers of people lose faith in the political system altogether. You see it in this very forum. And of course it plays into the hands of Johnson and his ilk; whereas what's actually needed is more voter mobilisation. Hopefully that can be brought about once the election and/or referendum is announced.

[ahinton]

Boris and his chums are probably hoping for support from Nigel Farage's lot: one word of approval from Nige, blazed all over the front pages, could seal it for them is the assumption.

A mistaken assumption, I think; after all the recent deselections, resignations and defections as well as all the votes that BoJo's lost since assuming office, the Tories are in considerable disarray, the two-party system looks set to start biting the dust, the Tory Remainers would want to keep the Farrago as far away as possible and the only possible outcome of a GE would be a hung Parliament and the need for another one.

Be thankful for what you've been given!

Oh, I am, S_A; fear not! I have escaped being given a share of RBS' debt, for starters! I just find the term "public ownership" misleading, that's all.

[eighthobstruction]

.....just been looking at the YouGov website....what a pigs ear of a website it is in my opinion....how can it possibly be seen as representative....it is self refering isn't it....Not only that it is very badly designed....

[Serial_Apologist]

Here is another similarity with the Trump situation in the USA. You can't persuade his supporters to stop supporting him on the grounds that everything he says is a pack of dangerous lies - their answer would be, to quote Mr Lydon, "we know, and we don't care". It's clear that the only strategy that's going to dislodge Trump in the USA is getting the Democrat vote out in larger numbers than in 2016. And so it is in the UK too. One of the (possibly unintended) (but possibly not) results of the Cameron-May-Johnson escalation is that large numbers of people lose faith in the political system altogether. You see it in this very forum. And of course it plays into the hands of Johnson and his ilk; whereas what's actually needed is more voter mobilisation. Hopefully that can be brought about once the election and/or referendum is announced.

And then, of course, all parties standing, proportionate to their voting quotient, will have the opportunity to make political broadcasts. Some of the unofficial pro-Corbyn ones I've been coming across on facebook are far better than any I've seen in previous elections.

[Serial_Apologist]

A mistaken assumption, I think; after all the recent deselections, resignations and defections as well as all the votes that BoJo's lost since assuming office, the Tories are in considerable disarray, the two-party system looks set to start biting the dust, the Tory Remainers would want to keep the Farrago as far away as possible and the only possible outcome of a GE would be a hung Parliament and the need for another one.

I'm thinking of the Tory leavers, now at the helm, who will have advantage of a viagra equivalence boost if the Farage tells his support base they are to throw their support in with BoJo.

[eighthobstruction]

I watched Part 2 of The Rise of the Nazis on BBC2 last night. Some emphasis is being laid on current relevance by the makers of this documentary, and one of the points made was that a disillusioned German working class flocked to Hitler in 1932 on a tide of allegations of the Communist Party preparing a coup from the top establishment and its press - for which there was in fact no material evidence - coupled with how they used Himmler's supposed charisma to gain support, despite the fact that he had offered no programme or policy platform other than "making Germany great agaiin". Well, the Nazis had to make maximum use of him, hadn't they? And the parallels are self-explanatory. A third point made, that democracy was still a new concept in 1932, clearly doesn't apply to our own time; but, observing the closed minds now having their day over Brexit, I am nevertheless getting a strong feeling of what it must have been like to have been in Germany at that stage. All of a sudden a single issue is being fetishised as some proving ground regarding "the People's" feelings about democracy, overlooking the entire complex of issues embraced in remaining or leaving which can only be resolved in a general election. I can't help wondering how many of those now proclaiming their faith in British sovereignty, while never being questioned by interviewers what precisely they mean by it, ever bothered to turn up to vote in pre-Brexit general elections, though I admit to having no evidence that they are offloading their guilt onto their opponents to prove this point.

....did you watch the prog about George Soros....interesting....https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...bal-mastermind

....the Trump Rubbish that RB writes about is laid out....