The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • CGR
    Full Member
    • Aug 2016
    • 370

    Originally posted by muzzer View Post
    I consider the anti semitism in the Labour Party a form of xenophobia fwiw.
    Labour does have a major problem with the anti-semitism on the left of the party. There is also a huge issue with Corbyn's past support for terrorist causes.

    I used to be a Labour member back in the 1990's, but I couldn't even vote for the party led by Corbyn or McDonnell or Abbott etc.

    Comment

    • Dave2002
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 18009

      Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
      I think folks need to be a bit careful when doing the "sibing" thing to discredit party leaders

      Image credit: YouTube video screenshot. Piers Corbyn Credentials Background Piers Corbyn is an astrophysicist who regularly speaks at climate science denial events. He is founder and director of the weather forecasting company WeatherAction.1Megan Darby. “Meet the sceptics: why science can’t compete with beachballs,” Climate Home News, July 11, 2014. Archived January 23, 2019. Archive.fo URL: […]



      Unfortunately it might appear from.the linked article that Piers is rather more deluded than his brother. Seems like a 100% climate change denier.

      Comment

      • Dave2002
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 18009

        Originally posted by CGR View Post
        My Mum used to say "Never discuss religion or politics with friends. You are likely to lose them". Wise words.
        So either you and I have no friends here, or perhaps none of us are wise.

        Comment

        • teamsaint
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 25195

          Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
          I don't buy that
          I don't buy the "antisemtism" smear
          BUT there are plenty of folks on the "left" of politics who's rabid opposition to the EU couldn't be seen as anything but xenophobic
          I'd say that many on the left have "considered", rather than "rabid" opposition to the EU.
          I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

          I am not a number, I am a free man.

          Comment

          • MrGongGong
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 18357

            Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
            I'd say that many on the left have "considered", rather than "rabid" opposition to the EU.


            Having met many of these folks I would say that "rabid" is putting it mildly.

            Comment

            • ahinton
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 16122

              Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
              Indeed. It's amazing how many people still come out with the line that Corbyn and/or the party are "riddled with antisemitism" when this has been so comprehensively disproved.
              Indeed, but most of those who do this are simply determined to upset apple-carts, in some cases purely for the sake of it; one might say something similar about Islamophobia in the Tory party although evidence disproving that has yet to be tried and tested.

              Comment

              • Richard Barrett
                Guest
                • Jan 2016
                • 6259

                Originally posted by CGR View Post
                Labour does have a major problem with the anti-semitism on the left of the party.
                Do you perhaps have a link to some actual evidence of that? Joseph K has posted a link to plenty of evidence against it so that would seem only fair.

                Comment

                • oddoneout
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2015
                  • 9145

                  Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
                  Indeed. It's amazing how many people still come out with the line that Corbyn and/or the party are "riddled with antisemitism" when this has been so comprehensively disproved.
                  From all the current political accusation and counter-accusation anyone would think that antisemitism is a relatively recent issue, but certainly in this country dislike/distrust of Jews has been part of the national psyche for centuries and runs deep. Christianity hasn't exactly been helpful.

                  Comment

                  • Richard Barrett
                    Guest
                    • Jan 2016
                    • 6259

                    Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
                    I'd say that many on the left have "considered", rather than "rabid" opposition to the EU.
                    Indeed. It's very unusual to find anyone "on the left" who has an uncritical view of the EU, for reasons we've discussed here many times. I guess one might find some "rabid" opposition to it in Greece, but then the Greek people have had to bear the full horror of the EU's inherent neoliberal ideology laying waste to their country in defiance of the result of the 2015 referendum on accepting the EU's "bailout" terms. Criticism of the EU from a socialist perspective is of course not at all the same thing as the kind of little-England nonsense spouted by Farage et al. Remember the discussions we were having here before the referendum about the TTIP, which would curtail the ability of future EU-member governments to carry out (in the UK) such obviously beneficial and popular policies as renationalising public transport, just as surely as Johnson's selloff of the country to Trump would. It's clear that being outside the EU in the hands of far-right Tory ideologues is worse than being in the EU. But none of these issues is simple. Nothing is achieved by accusing those who acknowledge that complexity as "rabid".

                    Comment

                    • Richard Barrett
                      Guest
                      • Jan 2016
                      • 6259

                      Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
                      From all the current political accusation and counter-accusation anyone would think that antisemitism is a relatively recent issue, but certainly in this country dislike/distrust of Jews has been part of the national psyche for centuries and runs deep. Christianity hasn't exactly been helpful.
                      That is true. But as JK's link shows, (a) it is less prevalent among Labour supporters than Tories, (b) it is less prevalent among Labour supporters than in the general public as a whole, and (c) its prevalence among Labour supporters has decreased under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership. These are the facts. The accusations against Corbyn and Labour clearly have some other motivation than exposing the truth.

                      Comment

                      • Richard Tarleton

                        Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
                        That is true. But as JK's link shows, (a) it is less prevalent among Labour supporters than Tories, (b) it is less prevalent among Labour supporters than in the general public as a whole, and (c) its prevalence among Labour supporters has decreased under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership. These are the facts. The accusations against Corbyn and Labour clearly have some other motivation than exposing the truth.
                        I had a good look at this link but find I have no way of evaluating it. The author's "About the Author" section says what he does, not who he is. He does not appear to quote sources for his statistics - perhaps he does and I've missed it, but as it stands they appear to be just unsubstantiated bar graphs. Are they based on surveys, or polls, and if so by whom, by what method and of whom? There seem to be no grounds for accepting that these are the "facts", as you do. What is one to make of the contrary views of those current and ex Labour MPs who are Jewish and who state that it is a problem? Their contributions to the debate are generally met (as far as I've read) with ad hominem (or, more often, ad feminem) abuse.

                        Comment

                        • eighthobstruction
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 6432

                          Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
                          That is true. But as JK's link shows, (a) it is less prevalent among Labour supporters than Tories, (b) it is less prevalent among Labour supporters than in the general public as a whole, and (c) its prevalence among Labour supporters has decreased under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership. These are the facts. The accusations against Corbyn and Labour clearly have some other motivation than exposing the truth.
                          ....of course it has become a quick motif for folk to trot out ref JC/Labour....and they do. Stands to reason that because human beings are involved distrust, dislike, intolerance are involved with some folk, as are trust, acceptance, tolerance with others. I find it sad that the deliverer of the motif, does not immediately qualify it with "so too the Tories and with anti-islamiphobia too"....but that is too much to ask....yes interesting website JK [I will pass it on to friends]

                          ....Yes RT we had better make sure this thread does not vere away from topic....I too wonder about such a website....but in this case it seems tobe reaching common sense conclusions mostly....and that is my evaluation....
                          bong ching

                          Comment

                          • Richard Barrett
                            Guest
                            • Jan 2016
                            • 6259

                            Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post
                            What is one to make of the contrary views of those current and ex Labour MPs who are Jewish and who state that it is a problem?
                            I think one starts by acknowledging Corbyn's criticism of Israeli apartheid, and everything else flows from there. As I said, the accusations have some other motivation than exposing the truth, and this is a main component of it. Note that the accusers never actually use any statistics in support of their arguments. (That's why I asked CGR to produce some hard evidence.) The author of the article does quote sources, two YouGov surveys in 2015 and 2017 and a survey by the Campaign Against Antisemitism. I follow this blog quite regularly. The author is not given to making things up.

                            Comment

                            • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                              Gone fishin'
                              • Sep 2011
                              • 30163

                              Is this any use to anyone?

                              Data from the “Antisemitism Barometer” suggests Labour supporters are less antisemitic than other parties' supporters. But the same study also found that 83 per cent of British Jews think the Labour is too soft on antisemitism.
                              [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                              Comment

                              • eighthobstruction
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 6432

                                Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                                ....yes that's good....
                                bong ching

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X