The Tory Party can't be forgiven for what the referendum has done to our country. Whichever way the cards fall, we are all losers.
The Dictatorship of the Etonariat
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Labour may have a leadership that is comfortable with leaving with a deal, but it is a remain party at heart, and that will end up being the more significant part of their stance. Remainers really ought to have no thought of doing anything other than voting labour in seats where it has the best chance of beating a tory, because that is the remainers’ best hope of either a soft brexit, or no brexit.
Labour is going to have to box very clever as to the timing of the next election, but when it does happen, they still have a lot of cards to play, despite the poor poll showing at present.I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
I am not a number, I am a free man.
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Originally posted by teamsaint View PostSo, er, it seems as though Labour may refuse to vote for a GE, assuming they win the no deal bill vote.
Which leaves things, if it were possible, even more confused.
Doesn’t it?
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Originally posted by Richard Barrett View PostI would imagine that the thinking behind refusing to vote for an election on 14 October (which is what seems to be on offer) is that it would be preferable to let the 31 October deadline pass with no Brexit, watch the Tories tear themselves to pieces, and then win an election with a larger majority than might otherwise be the case. That's just a guess off the top of my head though; no doubt there are people who've thought this through more thoroughly and with more knowledge and insight than me. I very much hope we don't have to wait too long for an election though.
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Originally posted by teamsaint View PostLabour may have a leadership that is comfortable with leaving with a deal, but it is a remain party at heart, and that will end up being the more significant part of their stance. Remainers really ought to have no thought of doing anything other than voting labour in seats where it has the best chance of beating a tory, because that is the remainers’ best hope of either a soft brexit, or no brexit.
Labour is going to have to box very clever as to the timing of the next election, but when it does happen, they still have a lot of cards to play, despite the poor poll showing at present.
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By the way tonight's Channel 4 and 5 resortings to studio debates a la Questiontime with audience interjections, together with Paxman's programme asking what is wrong with today's politicians, were weak affairs that just illustrated the mainstream broadcasting media's complicity in the general public's ill-informed confusion over a lot more than Brexit. I'll try and be more specific tomorrow, having taken a few notes. Time to hit the sack!
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Originally posted by gurnemanz View PostThe Tory Party can't be forgiven for what the referendum has done to our country. Whichever way the cards fall, we are all losers.
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Originally posted by teamsaint View PostLabour may have a leadership that is comfortable with leaving with a deal, but it is a remain party at heart, and that will end up being the more significant part of their stance. Remainers really ought to have no thought of doing anything other than voting labour in seats where it has the best chance of beating a tory, because that is the remainers’ best hope of either a soft brexit, or no brexit.
Labour is going to have to box very clever as to the timing of the next election, but when it does happen, they still have a lot of cards to play, despite the poor poll showing at present.
The Labour party is led by a lifetime opponent of the EU and is complicit in the whole mess by going along with it in the first place. Then, voting for it repeatedly.
Every Labour politician I hear on the radio starts off by saying "we need to respect the result of the referendum"
erm, no we don't, it was fundamentally flawed and dishonest and the role of REPRESENTATIVES is to represent not obey the whims of those who vote for them.
I also hear MPs saying that they have been "instructed" by the minority of the population who voted for it...
Furthermore a fantasy "soft Brexit" still means we lose our rights and freedoms for WHAT ?
The Labour party is part of the problem, trying to blame everything on the "evil Tories" is simply doing the whole "big boy did it and ran away" routine again.
Who we can actually vote FOR is anyones guess
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Originally posted by MrGongGong View PostYou must be joking
The Labour party is led by a lifetime opponent of the EU and is complicit in the whole mess by going along with it in the first place. Then, voting for it repeatedly.
Every Labour politician I hear on the radio starts off by saying "we need to respect the result of the referendum"
erm, no we don't, it was fundamentally flawed and dishonest and the role of REPRESENTATIVES is to represent not obey the whims of those who vote for them.
I also hear MPs saying that they have been "instructed" by the minority of the population who voted for it...
Furthermore a fantasy "soft Brexit" still means we lose our rights and freedoms for WHAT ?
The Labour party is part of the problem, trying to blame everything on the "evil Tories" is simply doing the whole "big boy did it and ran away" routine again.
Who we can actually vote FOR is anyones guess
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Originally posted by MrGongGong View PostYou must be joking
The Labour party is led by a lifetime opponent of the EU and is complicit in the whole mess by going along with it in the first place. Then, voting for it repeatedly.
Every Labour politician I hear on the radio starts off by saying "we need to respect the result of the referendum"
erm, no we don't, it was fundamentally flawed and dishonest and the role of REPRESENTATIVES is to represent not obey the whims of those who vote for them.
I also hear MPs saying that they have been "instructed" by the minority of the population who voted for it...
Furthermore a fantasy "soft Brexit" still means we lose our rights and freedoms for WHAT ?
The Labour party is part of the problem, trying to blame everything on the "evil Tories" is simply doing the whole "big boy did it and ran away" routine again.
Who we can actually vote FOR is anyones guess
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Originally posted by ahinton View PostIndeed so but, if voting for any party results in no party achieving a majority, a GE will have produced nothing other than expense, heightened acrimony and the maintenance of a status quo without the status.
Though maybe a government that realises that it doesn't have a mandate to do anything that changes our international relationships would be a good start IMV
But, where I live, voting is a total waste of time.
I have only voted FOR a political party twice, having voted AGAINST many times.
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Originally posted by MrGongGong View PostIndeed
Though maybe a government that realises that it doesn't have a mandate to do anything that changes our international relationships would be a good start IMV
But, where I live, voting is a total waste of time.
I have only voted FOR a political party twice, having voted AGAINST many times.
Same here, subject to replacing 'twice' with 'once' - and that was in a local council election. I'm tempted to decide to vote (subject to my choice not being racist, homophobic or whatever) on whichever candidate looks like coming last, which probably means the Green Party if they're fielding one.
Philip Hammond came as close as he probably ever will to incandescent fury in the 0810 interview on 'Today'.
I agree completely with gurnemanz about the baleful consequences of that damned referendum. Cameron was running scared of the Brexiteers and Johnson is doing the same.
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Originally posted by MrGongGong View PostIndeed
Though maybe a government that realises that it doesn't have a mandate to do anything that changes our international relationships would be a good start IMV]
Originally posted by MrGongGong View PostBut, where I live, voting is a total waste of time.
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Originally posted by LMcD View PostPhilip Hammond came as close as he probably ever will to incandescent fury in the 0810 interview on 'Today'.
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