Paris, anyone?

[Nick Armstrong]

I find it sad and unfortunate that any discussion topics that are about or might include matters of politics (including but not limited to party politics) tend to be at best regarded with caution and at worst ditched in the Diversions thread or terminated altogether

It's not the topics that are ditched or regarded with caution, it seems to me, but the discussions which ensue, due to the usual and tediously-predictable descent into a repetitive and/or snide and/or abusive tone which does no one any credit and is off-putting to the majority of Forumites and no doubt many would-be Forumites

[Richard Barrett]

I understand that, Caliban, but then why is it that the "tediously-predictable descent into a repetitive and/or snide and/or abusive tone" is allowed (for example) on the Choir forum but not when the subject is political in nature?

[ahinton]

It's not the topics that are ditched or regarded with caution, it seems to me, but the discussions which ensue, due to the usual and tediously-predictable descent into a repetitive and/or snide and/or abusive tone which does no one any credit and is off-putting to the majority of Forumites and no doubt many would-be Forumites

Indeed so; I fully understand that, as I'd hoped that I'd made clear.

My only concern is with the possible perception that such conduct arises only or mainly within discussions of certain kinds of topic, paticularly those with political, religious and racial elements and I am not convinced that this is indeed the case; as a consequence, I wonder whether it might give rise to a risk of such discussions becoming ghettoised whereas those on other topics would not be so even if such conduct were to rear itself in them. For example, a recent discussion in the May election thread that's now been Diversionsed addressed the latest in a series of gaffes attributed to representatives of a certain UK political party and the possible impact of these upon its electoral credibility; I did not consider that mere mention of it constituted evidence of "obsession" with said party and I confirmed that, for the record, I have no obsession with any political party but, although I did not mention it, my view as to the possible impact of such gaffes on a party's electoral credibility would be the same regardless of the name of the party in which they'd been committed. Whilst I don't regard this exchange as representative of the "usual and tediously-predictable descent into a repetitive and/or snide and/or abusive tone" to which you refer, it might seem to some to be an instance of "no smoke without fire" in the regard, although I would be unsurprised if similar exchanges did not appear in discussions of other topics.

Also, as Richard Barrett has been at pains to point out on a number of occasions, many topics are likely to have a political element within them, not just those which are overtly about political issues.

[Nick Armstrong]

I understand that, Caliban, but then why is it that the "tediously-predictable descent into a repetitive and/or snide and/or abusive tone" is allowed (for example) on the Choir forum but not when the subject is political in nature?

Is it? I've never been called on to 'break it up' on the Choir forum in quite the same way. The 'termination' function is not one I can perform, in any event, so it's all just my perception... but at least the Choir thread has more than a toe-hold in the original subject-matter of this Forum.

[Richard Barrett]

Well, so is the argument here really about what it's permissible to talk about, or how it's permissible to talk about it, or both, or something else?

[Flosshilde]

Is it? I've never been called on to 'break it up' on the Choir forum in quite the same way. The 'termination' function is not one I can perform, in any event, so it's all just my perception... but at least the Choir thread has more than a toe-hold in the original subject-matter of this Forum.

Perhaps you should be. Whenever I've dipped into the 'Choir' it threads seem invariably (especially when they are about Choral Evensong, which most are) to descend into the 'tit-for-tat' style of discussion. Then there are the discussions involving HIPP - there are one or two members who can get pretty snide in their comments on that.

So really it's not the manner of discussion that's the perceived problem with anything political, 'political' or Political, but the subjects themselves (and some members). If one doesn't like the way in which the latter conduct themselves it's possible to put them on 'ignore', or indeed ignore the whole thread. As for it putting people of joining, or joining in with, the forum, they must be rather sensitive souls if one thread can dissuade them from reading or participating in all the others.

[Nick Armstrong]

Or perhaps the approach re the "political" is correct and should be extended to the "choral"?

[ardcarp]

Indeed - just look at the 'Choir' forum for intemperate discussion (but of course that's religion, which is just as inflamatory as politics

)

May I just point out in a non-inflammatory way that practitioners of Choral Music are not necessarily practitioners of religion.

[Quarky]

It's not the topics that are ditched or regarded with caution, it seems to me, but the discussions which ensue, due to the usual and tediously-predictable descent into a repetitive and/or snide and/or abusive tone which does no one any credit and is off-putting to the majority of Forumites and no doubt many would-be Forumites

You are absolutely correct Caliban - empty kettles make most noise, but it doesn't appear possible to shut them up.

As far as I am concerned I intend to restrict my activities to "Read Only" in the future. Originally joined the forum as a means of enhancing knowledge of music and musical offerings on R3, but it does not appear to offer much that is useful these days.

[ardcarp]

but it does not appear to offer much that is useful these days.

Oh come, come! Platform 3 is not the best place to look for musical enlightenment, but Performance, Talking About Music, and especially CD Review are a mine of information and often worthwhile discussion. And if you want a really friendly place, try Early Music...very little mud thrown there.

[teamsaint]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/british-muslim-school-children-suffering-a-backlash-of-abuse-following-paris-attacks-9999393.html

Muslim UK school children apparently suffering increased levels of problems.

very sad, and disappointing.

more unites us than divides us.

[Flosshilde]

You are absolutely correct Caliban - empty kettles make most noise, but it doesn't appear possible to shut them up.

As far as I am concerned I intend to restrict my activities to "Read Only" in the future. Originally joined the forum as a means of enhancing knowledge of music and musical offerings on R3, but it does not appear to offer much that is useful these days.

Whether the forum offers much that you find useful isn't, I think, due to one particular thread - there are plenty of music threads to look at & contribute to. If you find a thread that doesn't interest you you don't need to look at it (but you have, I note, made several contributions to this one, so it can't be all that unintersting). I sometimes read threads that look interesting but find that either they aren't or that they have wandered off into discussions that don't do much for me. Solution? I either post something more on topic, or don't go back to it (sometimes I find the diversion more interesting than the original topic ). But I really don't buy this idea that a single thread can put someone off the Forum as a whole. I think people here are more intelligent than that.

[Frances_iom]

...
Muslim UK school children apparently suffering increased levels of problems.
....

there is an interesting article in this week's Tablet by John McDade(lecturer in theology St Mary's Univ) headlined 'Fatal danger of an unexamined faith' - starting with a quote from Kafka that 'religions get lost as people do' he looks at the arguments that violence in Islam might be inherent - pace Pope Benedict's lecture (misunderstood it seems by many) re critical enquiry and reasoned exploration of one's faith.

[MrGongGong]

As far as I am concerned I intend to restrict my activities to "Read Only" in the future. Originally joined the forum as a means of enhancing knowledge of music and musical offerings on R3, but it does not appear to offer much that is useful these days.

It's full of interesting things about music and R3.
"Useful" ?

I've had really informed and 'useful' answers to musical questions many times from folks in here.

[Petrushka]

As a regular reader of, and part time contributor to, The Choir, I don't recognise the comments made here about it. People can be forthright with their opinions - and why not? - but there certainly isn't the sometimes highly unpleasant contributions one gets from certain members who take part in the political discussions. I have often wondered if some members realise how obnoxious they appear to be?

The problem with political debate is that it is all about opinions and there is never any likelihood of settling on a consensus. That's the nature of it and why arguments go round and round and descend into acrimony.

It was inevitable that political subjects would appear 'by the back door' on Platform 3 and if FF was serious about banning members who did this then the threat shouldn't have been made unless intended to be carried out.