Paris, anyone?

[ahinton]

You are talking about Little Englanders here, not us.

I had assumed from the tenor of some of your recent posts in this thread that you defend and perhaps associate at least in part with Little Englander "philosophy" or at least do not find it offensive or otherwise objectionable.

You don't live in a multicultural community, like many of us do

Whatever gives you that idea and on what evidence do you purport to base it? For the record, it is incorrect. Whilst there are admittedly no especially prominent Asian, Middle Eastern or South American communities in the neck of the woods where I happen to reside, there are many in that area from quite a few other parts of Europe, especially eastern Europe.

so do you mean that if our community becomes monocultural, you'd leave your monocultural community?

No, because, as I wrote, it isn't one.

And why do you think that anyone would seek you out and force you to ****** off back to Scotland?

I do not think that this would happen; I refer to it only in the context of a situation in which the Little Englanders had sufficient powers of repatriation (which of course is not the case) that they might wish to exercise in order to maintain what they would believe to be a monocultural "English" society in England.

Are you not attaching a little too much importance to yourself? I bet no-one would even notice you.

No - in fact, none at all - and no, I wouldn't expect to be noticed among all those other Scots similarly to be removed from English soil by a Little Englander government were there ever to be one that promoted policies along the lines of a more peaceful and less violent version of EDF.

Why do you keep talking about Little Englanders? RB instructed us about Englanders, not little ones.

And he subsequently wrote that it might have been clearer had he capitalised the "L" in his reference to "little Englanders" (which might arguably have been seen as a rare capitalist action for him).

And I did not present any view, why do you attribute something to me which I didn't say? If you want to decide what an Englander (or little Englander) view is, go ahead, but don't attribute it to me.

I have no interest in "Little Englanders" and did not personally coin that phrase, but those who did coin it and those who use it correctly do know the kind of people that it is intended to denote. I attribute to you only what you have written on or around that subject - no more, no less.

To my question
Is a monocultural society one, for example, in which Muslims must all inhabit and not step outside certain countries designated for them (by whom?) and Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs et al likewise?
you responded

Think of Jamaica and Turkey, they aren't like that.

I didn't suggest that they are; indeed, I didn't single out any particular countries in my question which I hasten to remind you was a question, not a statement and to which your response does not provide an answer.

To my next question
And would it seek to presume total racial segregation along the lines of "England for the English only" (which sounds almost like an EDF slogan?
you responded

Your imagination is running riot! I don't think these ideas have been put forward, but you seem to have the hang of them!

Again, I asked a question of you, not made a statement to you and, once again, you have omitted to answer it.

[ahinton]

I meant, er, Noel Fielding of course.

Ah; I had wondered if you'd meant Norman Fowler...

[Beef Oven!]

I had assumed from the tenor of some of your recent posts in this thread that you defend and perhaps associate at least in part with Little Englander "philosophy" or at least do not find it offensive or otherwise objectionable.

Then you've not been paying attention.

Whatever gives you that idea and on what evidence do you purport to base it? For the record, it is incorrect. Whilst there are admittedly no especially prominent Asian, Middle Eastern or South American communities in the neck of the woods where I happen to reside, there are many in that area from quite a few other parts of Europe, especially eastern Europe.

I know where you live because you have told the forum often, and is not a multicultural area

No, because, as I wrote, it isn't one.

ibid

I do not think that this would happen; I refer to it only in the context of a situation in which the Little Englanders had sufficient powers of repatriation (which oif course is not the case) that they might wish to exercise in order to maintain what they would believe to be a monocultural "English" society in England.

You were just being melodramatic. Ok.

No - in fact, none at all - and no, I wouldn't expect to be noticed among all those other Scots similarly to be removed from English soil by a Little Englander government were there ever to be one that promoted policies along the lines of a more peaceful and less volent version of EDF.

Melodrama ibid

And he subsequently wrote that it might have been clearer had he capitalised the "L" in his reference to "little Englanders" (which might arguably have been seen as rare capitalist action for him).

It's all baloney anyway, with or without capital letters

I have no interest in "Little Englanders" and did not personally coin that phrase, but those who did coin it and those who use it correctly do know the kind of people that it is intended to denote. I attribute to you only what you have written on or around that subject - no more, no less.

You mustn't say that I've said things that I haven't said.

To my question
Is a monocultural society one, for example, in which Muslims must all inhabit and not step outside certain countries designated for them (by whom?) and Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs et al likewise?
you responded

I didn't suggest that they are; indeed, I didn't single out any particular countries in my question which I hasten to remind you was a question, not a statement and to which your response does not provide an answer.

I can't get to the meaning of your babble.

To my next question
And would it seek to presume total racial segregation along the lines of "England for the English only" (which sounds almost like an EDF slogan?
you responded

Again, I asked a question of you, not made a statement to you and, once again, you have omitted to answer it.

What's the question?

[ahinton]

Then you've not been paying attention.

I have paid to your posts the attention that they deserve.

I know where you live because you have told the forum often, and is not a multicultural area

You might well know where I live - I do not doubt it - but whilst it is your prerogative to describe it as "not a multicultural area", that does not make you corect in so doing, as I have aleady pointed out.

You were just being melodramatic. Ok.

No - and not "Ok". I wrote of the theoretical possibility of being chucked out of England by a Little Englander group should they ever seize power in England (so clearly part-joking hypothesis, for starters, not melodrama)
I do not think that this would happen; I refer to it only in the context of a situation in which the Little Englanders had sufficient powers of repatriation (which of course is not the case) that they might wish to exercise in order to maintain what they would believe to be a monocultural "English" society in England.
What, though, would you regard and accept as a "monocultural society" in England were one ever to materialise? How and by what policies might you expect one such to be identified?

Melodrama ibid

No; neither. Again, I wrote
No - in fact, none at all - and no, I wouldn't expect to be noticed among all those other Scots similarly to be removed from English soil by a Little Englander government were there ever to be one that promoted policies along the lines of a more peaceful and less violent version of EDF.
It would be hard to perceive anything "melodramatic" about not being noticed (and it was, after all, you who raised the idea of not being noticed); indeed, the two would seem inherently antonymous.

It's all baloney anyway, with or without capital letters

To you, perhaps, but clearly not to all of those who use the term "Little Englander"...

You mustn't say that I've said things that I haven't said.

I haven't; I have merely drawn attention to certain of your posts which must be read as you've written them.

I can't get to the meaning of your babble.

That's because (a) I haven't provided any babble and (b) you've tired insufficiently hard to get to the meaning of what I provided instead.

What's the question?

As I wrote it, namely
And would it seek to presume total racial segregation along the lines of "England for the English only" (which sounds almost like an EDF slogan?)
Not difficult to recognise or understand as a question, even if you find it difficult to answer it.

Oh, by the way - Paris, anyone?...

[mercia]

now that I've firmly convinced myself that Turkey and Jamaica are most definitely not multicultural societies, I'm very much looking forward to an answer to this question

What is multicultural society?

I feel I can't move forward until I know

[Beef Oven!]

QUOTE=ahinton;461959]I have paid to your posts the attention that they deserve.

Never mind about 'deserve', you must pay attention.

You might well know where I live - I do not doubt it - but whilst it is your prerogative to describe it as "not a multicultural area", that does not make you corect in so doing, as I have aleady pointed out.

You don't live in a multicultural area. Now pack it in.

No - and not "Ok". I wrote of the theoretical possibility of being chucked out of England by a Little Englander group should they ever seize power in England (so clearly part-joking hypothesis, for starters, not melodrama)
I do not think that this would happen; I refer to it only in the context of a situation in which the Little Englanders had sufficient powers of repatriation (which of course is not the case) that they might wish to exercise in order to maintain what they would believe to be a monocultural "English" society in England.
What, though, would you regard and accept as a "monocultural society" in England were one ever to materialise? How and by what policies might you expect one such to be identified?

All straw man arguments are hypothetical

No; neither. Again, I wrote
No - in fact, none at all - and no, I wouldn't expect to be noticed among all those other Scots similarly to be removed from English soil by a Little Englander government were there ever to be one that promoted policies along the lines of a more peaceful and less violent version of EDF.
It would be hard to perceive anything "melodramatic" about not being noticed (and it was, after all, you who raised the idea of not being noticed); indeed, the two would seem inherently antonymous.

ibid

To you, perhaps, but clearly not to all of those who use the term "Little Englander"...

It's a silly racial stereo-type that adds nothing to our understanding of anything

I haven't; I have merely drawn attention to certain of your posts which must be read as you've written them.

All posts must be read the way they are written. I think that's how forums like this work. People post, people read the posts and some reply. And so on.

That's because (a) I haven't provided any babble and (b) you've tired insufficiently hard to get to the meaning of what I provided instead.

I can't get to the meaning because of the babble you write

As I wrote it, namely
And would it seek to presume total racial segregation along the lines of "England for the English only" (which sounds almost like an EDF slogan?)
Not difficult to recognise or understand as a question, even if you find it difficult to answer it.

Would what presume total racial segregation........? What are you on about?

Oh, by the way - Paris, anyone?...

If you find this tedious and want to get back to the thread topic, don't play to the audience, just stop posting great long replies.

[french frank]

I feel I can't move forward until I know

Of or relating to a society consisting of a number of cultural groups, esp. in which the distinctive cultural identity of each group is maintained.

Is 2 a number?

[Beef Oven!]

Of or relating to a society consisting of a number of cultural groups, esp. in which the distinctive cultural identity of each group is maintained.

Is 2 a number?

2 is definitely a number. There is some argument as to whether zero is a number. Of course the real question is, is 1 a number?

[Ian]

I feel I can't move forward until I know

A multicultural society would be one where people of different cultures are allowed (by universal agreement among all the cultures present) to live according to whatever traditions and laws that constitute that particular culture.

[mercia]

thank you so much

[Beef Oven!]

A multicultural society would be one where people of different cultures are allowed (by universal agreement among all the cultures present) to live according to whatever traditions and laws that constitute that particular culture.

I'm struggling to think of country that is multicultural in your definition.

[Beef Oven!]

thank you so much

So welcome to multicultural Saudi Arabia, where the Arabs and the Afro-Asians maintain their distinctive cultural identity.

Btw, can't help feeling that you could have come up with that definition yourself.

[Krystal]

A multicultural society would be one where people of different cultures are allowed (by universal agreement among all the cultures present) to live according to whatever traditions and laws that constitute that particular culture.

The late Christopher Hitchens was powerful and eloquent when describing Islamofascism: “It took me a long time to separate and classify the 3 now-distinctive elements of the new and grievance-privileged Islamist mentality, which are self-righteousness, self-pity and self-hatred" ("Hitch 22", p.271).

Intelligent and thinking politics takes account of these kinds of cultural problems. I wonder if there's any nexus between my statement right there and Merkel's 2010 pronouncement about the "failures" of multi-culturalism?

[Ian]

I'm struggling to think of country that is multicultural in your definition.

Neither can I - I'm sure there isn't one. However, whether or not there are countries moving towards (although still miles off) that proposition is, perhaps, open to debate.

edit BTW, I've got no idea what the 'official' definition of multiculturalism is - My definition is simply one that makes sense to me.

[teamsaint]

This is something I have certainly noticed. One can only come to the conclusion that there is a hidden agenda. And that that agenda is certainly anti MUSLIM.

Well, there are certainly agendas being in play, and anti Muslim sentiment is certainly one of the tools being used.
But I would see it as good old fashioned divide and rule, myself, on the back of unquestioning repetition of the Whitehall line by probably over worked and (job) fearful journalists at the BBC and elsewhere.

I think it is probably quite hard for white British reasonably well off people, ( to avoid class labels) to understand the fears of British Muslims in the wake of Paris.