Paris, anyone?

[Beef Oven!]

Morris / Moorish Dancing anyone?

When I worked with an ensemble of refugee musicians in Birmingham a few years ago the two Kurdish players were most surprised to see that "Kurdish" dancing seemed to be an example of "English Culture".

I've lost count of how much Kurdish dancing I've done at Kurdish weddings in the last 25 years - it's easy though, even you could get by at one of those weddings, MrGGG!!!!

[Ian]

Yes but some to a far greater extent than others. The UK, USA and Australia, for example, are on quite a different level of multiculturality from say Poland or Japan or Saudi Arabia.

That is certainly true in the sense that the population of these countries includes many recent-ish immigrants. But that doesn’t necessarily make those countries ‘multicultural’ The fact that a culture might absorb new influences might be better described as ‘broadening’ rather than changing into something different called ‘multicultural’. I suppose, hypothetically, if a certain aspect of a culture (say for example cuisine) was only ever experienced by people originating from that culture a sort of multiculturalism would exist. But I can’t think of many examples where that has actually happened - perhaps to an extent in dress styles.

[Beef Oven!]

Getting back to the Paris theme of this section, I wouldn't like to suggest that the BBC is singing a biased tune but.....The BEEB leaves us in no doubt that the atrociies in Paris were carried out by "Islamist Terrorists". Fair Enough.

It's a bit more than fair enough!

But, I don't ever remember the mass killings in N.Ireland and on the UK Mainland ever being referred to as the work of "Catholic Terrorists", which of course they were. And that it was an open secret that they largely American funded. Am I missing something here?

That's because they didn't say they were avenging Jesus or killing blasphemers, or attacking people that insulted catholicism.

[Richard Barrett]

But not ahead of the erstwhile Archbishop of Canterbury who created an uproar by suggesting that there might be a place for Sharia Law (presumably a British version!) to be introduced into the UK.

Meanwhile, a certain N**** F***** has claimed untruthfully in a radio interview today that 80 Sharia courts are operating in the UK already! (There are Sharia Councils which advise on matters of Muslim marriage and divorce, inheritance and settlement of civil disputes, but of course they have no jurisdiction under UK law.)

[MrGongGong]

Meanwhile, a certain N**** F***** has claimed untruthfully in a radio interview today that 80 Sharia courts are operating in the UK already! (There are Sharia Councils which advise on matters of Muslim marriage and divorce, inheritance and settlement of civil disputes, but of course they have no jurisdiction under UK law.)

on second thoughts............... i'm saying nowt

[Richard Barrett]

i'm saying nowt

I meant, er, Noel Fielding of course.

[Beef Oven!]

Meanwhile, a certain N**** F***** has claimed untruthfully in a radio interview today that 80 Sharia courts are operating in the UK already! (There are Sharia Councils which advise on matters of Muslim marriage and divorce, inheritance and settlement of civil disputes, but of course they have no jurisdiction under UK law.)

I'm not sure Muslim law (Shariah) councils have been set up to provide advice, as you put it.

The Muslim (Law Sharia) Council UK says that it was set up to resolve domestic issues and social dilemmas for all British citizens.

They say that matters referred to the Council are deliberated by religious scholars who deliver their verdict (not advice) simply and concisely. They say that their verdicts are compliant with Islamic and British law.

I find the description of their service on people who want to divorce interesting. For men, the fee is £125 and it usually takes up to 2 weeks.

For women the fee is £175 and can take up to 6 months.

They say that the higher price for women is because there are many steps and both the husband and wife must be engaged the process.

I do not wish to appear flippant but the fees are much more reasonable than what non-sharia divorce would cost.

Here's the website. http://www.shariahcouncil.org

[MrGongGong]

I remember Brandon Jackson's trial in Lincoln in the 1990's

People get all het up about Shariah Law but don't seem too bothered about the CofE or the whole Beth Din business.
But I guess some people only want people to support them regardless.

[Ian]

Because, if we do, we would also have to have a society where it would not be illegal for one of those wives to be stoned if they committed adultery.

Not necessarily, I’ve no idea what any distinct, but uk resident, cultural group might vote for if the legal framework allowed that sort of group self-determination.

[Ian]

Presumably that was also a joke.

No, it was a hypothetical example.

[Richard Barrett]

Not necessarily

I wonder what the qualification would be for a "self-determining group"... would it have to comprise a certain number of people? or specifically be religious in nature? how could you opt out of it? (for example if you'd been sentenced to stoning or flogging or mutilation and you wanted to shop around for a "self-determining group" that would be more lenient) It certainly looks more like a joke than a hypothesis...

[Bryn]

Re, the Irish Republican Movement (Sinn Fein and it's associate organisations). By no means all its members are Roman Catholic by faith. It includes some Protestants (not that many, admittedly), Jews and atheists. Not sure whether there are also Muslim members but there may well be. As Gerry Adams recalls in his Falls Road Memories, his first encounter with sectarianism was being challenged to recite an iconic Roman Catholic text to show he was not a Protestant in his youth. He has fought against such discrimination ever since.

[Ian]

It certainly looks more like a joke than a hypothesis...

I’m not saying it’s remotely likely or desirable, simply that it would be a system that could genuinely be described as ‘multicultural’ - thus providing some sort of bench-mark to decide if what we actually have is a multi-culture or a broader mono-culture.

However, as it happens, I don’t think it is intrinsically an impossible scenario either...

[Quarky]

Getting back to the Paris theme of this section, I wouldn't like to suggest that the BBC is singing a biased tune but.....The BEEB leaves us in no doubt that the atrociies in Paris were carried out by "Islamist Terrorists". Fair Enough. But, I don't ever remember the mass killings in N.Ireland and on the UK Mainland ever being referred to as the work of "Catholic Terrorists", which of course they were. And that it was an open secret that they largely American funded. Am I missing something here?

Not sure what your point is here.

But as regards American funding, it is my recollection that funding came from US individuals and Catholic organisations. However this was offset by the peace making efforts made by US administration, including visits by various presidents and ex-presidents, in particular Bill Clinton. USA Big country! Russian activities in Ukraine?

[ahinton]

Meanwhile, a certain N**** F***** has claimed untruthfully in a radio interview today that 80 Sharia courts are operating in the UK already! (There are Sharia Councils which advise on matters of Muslim marriage and divorce, inheritance and settlement of civil disputes, but of course they have no jurisdiction under UK law.)

Then he's making something of a habit of radio gaffes today; at the end of this morning's edition of Today on BBC R4, the presenter James Naughtie gave a correction to what NF had earlier on that programme cited as a book by Denis MacShane on the subject of political correctness in Rotherham and, in the interim, Mr MacShane himself denied to that programme that he had written any such book and stated instead that he had only written newspaper articles on that topic.