Paris, anyone?

[ahinton]

Well, I've already quite often and clearly stated that, sadly, the abuse of free speech and deliberate insult are the price we pay for a free society. So I'm uncomfortable with the idea of censorship in a supposedly free society, though no doubt valid arguments could be raised for it in regard to encouraging paedophilia, for example.

I hope that's now crystal clear.

That might depend upon your particular personal view of crystalline clarity.

In the context of references to the fact that with rights come responsibilities, I have already noted my view that that upholding free speech and similar freedoms in society does not of itself encourage, stilol less oblige, members of a society to say and write anything that they feel like without due regard to the sensibilities of others of its members so, broadly speaking, I concur with your first paragraph, not least because such concurrence allows for such free speech to include disparaging comments about publications that some might deem to be irresponsible and inflammatory but which are at the same time not in contravention of the law.

That does not mean that one must be seen waving banners in support of those who abuse free speech by quite deliberately insulting and goading others. I don't believe in deliberately offending anyone whether they be Moslem, Jew, Black, Brown, Yellow, Homosexual, Feminist, Socialist, Capitalist, etc etc however much our colours of skin and views may differ. Why would any reasonable person wish to do that?

But it also does not mean that one (or tens or hundreds of thousands) must NOT be seen doing this as long as it does not contravene the law. I agree that deliberately offending anyone on the grounds of their religion, skin pigment, racial origins, political beliefs or indeed any other reason - especially if such offence is given publically (as in journal / broadcast content, tweets or other social media publication and the like) - but, ultimately, the laws that grant free speech and other freedoms are there to be called upon by disaffected parties if it/they might have been breached, just as are those against murder, irrespective of who commits it.

In decalring your view that public demonstrations are stupid and infantile, you deliberately avoid distinguishing between their purpose and that of voting for change; in reality, there is no such distinction but, when the electoral process does not bring about such change and people feel disaffected thereby, there's no earthly reason not to resort to the other in order to make one's concerns and views known in a public arena provided that the law is not breached thereby. Your self-proclaimed contempt for demonstrations of public solidarity is therefore untenable. You mention pædophilia; given the parlous situation that has to date beset and repeatedly delayed the mounting and implementation of a full public inquiry into historical and present sexual (and other) abuse of minors in UK - a matter of increasingly grave public concern - would you consider, for example, a march of tens or hundreds of thousands of people from Buckingham Palace to Trafalgar Square leading to a rally at the latter against the failure to date officially to address these issues un UK to be "stupid and infantile"?

While awaiting your response to this question, I am reminded of the ultimately successful public demonstration in London against the axing of a number of BBC orchestras in 1980 and whose "stupid and infantile" participants included Sir Michael Tippett, Sir Lennox Berkeley, Sir Harrison Birtwistle, Sir Peter Maxwell Davies and other knights, etc. or the realm (and I don't doubt that Sir Richard Rodney Bennett would have been making up the numbers had he not just relocated to New York at the time)...

[Krystal]

I was out with my dates on the comment about Merkel, made earlier:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed

[MrGongGong]

Whether your dates are right or not it seems blatantly clear to me that the oft repeated mantra of "multiculturalism has failed" is nonsense.
For the most part people from many different cultures and background get on, work and live together perfectly well and happily.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Whether your dates are right or not it seems blatantly clear to me that the oft repeated mantra of "multiculturalism has failed" is nonsense.
For the most part people from many different cultures and background get on, work and live together perfectly well and happily.

indeed and as recent research made clear last year 'British' is a multicultural identity, and one of which i am proud ...

[MrGongGong]

indeed and as recent research made clear last year 'British' is a multicultural identity, and one of which i am proud ...

[P. G. Tipps]

Ahinton, I have said before that organising a petition to parliament seems a more adult form of protest to me, and the fact that Sir Michael Tippett, Sir Lennox Berkeley, Sir Harrison Birtwistle, Sir Peter Maxwell Davies and Sir Richard Rodney Bennett (had he not relocated to New York) and any other 'knight of the realm' had joined a march 35 years ago does in no way alter that opinion!

Furthermore, it's not particularly an issue that keeps me awake at nights. If other people wish to march that is their inalienable right.

Good luck to them, ahinton!

[Cornet IV]

while i agree with you kea on the masculine authoritarian response i do not as agree at all with your depiction of Radical Islam as family friendly .... as a father of a daughter i have no compunction in seeking to deny radical islam any sway on any human society let alone here ... the subjugation of women by an essentially hill tribe patriarchy in ignorant serfdom and sexual slavery [not to mention honour killing and acid attacks for the exercise of independent choice] is an anathema.

Radical Islam promotes itself as the enemy of what Gellner termed Civil Society ... we have no choice but to confront the spread of its toxic notions; promoting the education, independence and free choice of women across the globe is one route to do this .....

I cannot think that a reasonable person would find exception with any of this. The problem begins with we have no choice but to confront the spread of its toxic notions.

Given that as it affects the UK, the problem essentially is political in that the distortion of English cultural evolution has been effected by politicians and their drive for "multiculturalism", this confrontation should be led from Westminster but given my earlier reference to cowardly politicians, this lead is almost guaranteed not to be forthcoming. I am well aware of the worthlessness of my own MP in this regard.

However, there can be little doubt that Charlie brought much of this upon himself by needless provocation. Satire is one thing but there can never be any excuse for bad manners. The publication has goaded the snake into striking in the same fashion as the stupid and arrogant EU has baited The Bear into the Ukrainian corner with who knows what consequences to come? Parading with banners might ameliorate the present anger of les Sans Culottes but confronting this evil is going to require a great deal more than this. In this regard, je ne suis point Charlie but am curious to know what practical forms having any likelihood of success might be suggested.

I'm looking for the smiley which says "I'm anything but sanguine".

[Richard Barrett]

'British' is a multicultural identity, and one of which i am proud ...

I don't know about proud, but, having lived in various countries on the continent for most of the past twenty years, I increasingly find it one of the aspects of the old country that I miss the most. When I see little Englanders complaining about being "swamped" and suchlike nonsense I can't help thinking that if they actually had a little more experience of other places they might realise what a valuable and attractive aspect of British society this really is.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I don't know about proud, but, having lived in various countries on the continent for most of the past twenty years, I increasingly find it one of the aspects of the old country that I miss the most. When I see little Englanders complaining about being "swamped" and suchlike nonsense I can't help thinking that if they actually had a little more experience of other places they might realise what a valuable and attractive aspect of British society this really is.

[teamsaint]

I don't know about proud, but, having lived in various countries on the continent for most of the past twenty years, I increasingly find it one of the aspects of the old country that I miss the most. When I see little Englanders complaining about being "swamped" and suchlike nonsense I can't help thinking that if they actually had a little more experience of other places they might realise what a valuable and attractive aspect of British society this really is.

I don't think that most young people in the UK, certainly those aged under 30 and particularly if educated to degree level, (because of the multicultural and diverse nature of our universities,amongst other things) give multiculturalism a second thought. Its part of their lifetime's experience. So much hope for the future there, I think.

[ahinton]

Ahinton, I have said before that organising a petition to parliament seems a more adult form of protest to me, and the fact that Sir Michael Tippett, Sir Lennox Berkeley, Sir Harrison Birtwistle, Sir Peter Maxwell Davies and Sir Richard Rodney Bennett (had he not relocated to New York) and any other 'knight of the realm' had joined a march 35 years ago does in no way alter that opinion!

Furthermore, it's not particularly an issue that keeps me awake at nights. If other people wish to march that is their inalienable right.

Good luck to them, ahinton!

There's nothing wrong in principle with organising a Parliamentary petition - this can be done online - however, a minimum tally of 100,000 signatories must be reached before, in most cases, Parliament wll be obliged to consider debating the matter concerned (which will not in any case guarantee a successful outcome). Public demonstrations are usually, however, a more effective way of drawing wider public attention to an issue.

Whether or not you consider the actions of the composers cited in the above example to have been "adult" - or, for that matter, "stupid and infantile" - is a matter for you although, whatever your view on them, you appear to clarify that they do not in any way alter your opinion of such public demonstrations, so it is perhaps just as well that such people, along with many others who are prepared to participate in such demonstrations, do not share it and are accordingly prepared publicly to exercise what even you admit is "their inalienable right".

[ardcarp]

I don't think that most young people in the UK, certainly those aged under 30 and particularly if educated to degree level, (because of the multicultural and diverse nature of our universities,amongst other things) give multiculturalism a second thought. Its part of their lifetime's experience. So much hope for the future there, I think.

Leicester is interesting. I'm always wary of the word 'multicultural' because it can have different nuances of meaning, but Leicester is a city where ethnics groups live, on the whole, harmoniously...some well-integrated and some slightly apart. I have a close relative who works in a large FE college there (the city state schools don't have VIth forms). The young seem to mix very easily to the extent that differences are forgotten. As far as education is concerned though, I gather that many Asian students have pressure from families (even 2nd or 3rd generation families) to study subjects which will lead to the 'professions', especially medicine, dentistry, pharmacy, opthalmics, accountancy, law and so on, meaning that few take arts subjects and hardly any music. Just an observation.

[Flosshilde]

Yes I know that and so was I, should have made more use of smileys I guess...

Oh, sorry. I should have known that you would understand.

[greenilex]

In Southampton just now we are somewhat alarmed by a TV company which has made a programme about a particular inner-city street and its "problems".
Many of us will be protesting at this apparently deliberate fomentation of discord by travelling to London to the headquarters of the channel involved.
As a great port, we have always welcomed all sorts.

[Richard Barrett]

organising a petition to parliament seems a more adult form of protest to me

It certainly doesn't involve leaving your armchair, which no doubt makes it more attractive to those of a certain age.