Paris, anyone?

[Richard Barrett]

I was under the impression that it was Cameron who was being called a hypocrite here?

Upthread I was talking more about whether Cameron could be said to "represent" the British people at a demonstration. But since you ask, remember that in 2013 UK authorities forced the Guardian to destroy computer hard drives containing documents provided by Edward Snowden to Glenn Greenwald (as if there were no copies elsewhere) and threatened the newspaper with judicial proceedings if it continued to report on the UK and US governments’ surveillance practices, which I think is hardly upholding the freedom of the press.

[Richard Barrett]

The impressive turnout amongst ordinary people of all faiths & all strata of French society I found heartening.

Indeed.

[french frank]

Upthread I was talking more about whether Cameron could be said to "represent" the British people at a demonstration. But since you ask, remember that in 2013 UK authorities forced the Guardian to destroy computer hard drives containing documents provided by Edward Snowden to Glenn Greenwald (as if there were no copies elsewhere) and threatened the newspaper with judicial proceedings if it continued to report on the UK and US governments’ surveillance practices, which I think is hardly upholding the freedom of the press.

Yes, I was thinking back to the objections people seemed to have to our Dear Leader attending. However, I don't think that revelations by Snowden or Assange come under the usual parameters of 'freedom of the press' where this involved what was the theft and (attempted) publication of state secrets. (However much I might cheer at the embarrassment caused. Which, of course, I don't ...).

[P. G. Tipps]

Amazing, Holmes! But we were talking about politicians here.

And you also mentioned 'hypocrisy', Watson!

Why pick on polticians ...?

[Flosshilde]

I agree that many of the world political leaders who attended yesterday's march are Grade A hypocrites, but I'm not sure why anyone should be surprised that they used the occasion for shameless grandstanding & pursuit of their own electoral agenda,

Perhaps not, but there is a difference between not being surprised at it, and being critical of it. The first does not prevent the second.

[MrGongGong]

And you also mentioned 'hypocrisy', Watson!

Why pick on polticians ...?

Do you really need an answer to that?
It's a shame that the French police didn't take the opportunity to make a few arrests, i'm sure the International Criminal Court would have space for some of Richards list.

[Richard Barrett]

Why pick on polticians ...?

Because exposing the hypocrisy of a politician gives us information we might want to bear in mind when deciding whether to lend our vote to reelecting him/her. Because less hypocrisy and more honesty in public life would make a positive difference to people - a life-death difference in some cases.

[Conchis]

I wonder how many people checked out the magazine before declaring themselves to 'be' Charlie?

Not many in the UK, I reckon. It's a disgusting, scatological rag.

'Irreverence' shouldn't be punished by death but should this kind of idiocy be identified with? I think not.

[french frank]

Hypocrisy isn't dependent on other's subjective interpretations, surely?

I think it is, depending on how you interpret the word: 'The assuming of a false appearance of virtue or goodness, with dissimulation of real character or inclinations, esp. in respect of religious life or beliefs; hence in general sense, dissimulation, pretence, sham. Also, an instance of this.' The root ὑπόκρισις , the acting of a part on the stage, feigning, pretence.

Or Wiki: 'Recent studies in psychology have identified the evolutionary bases and the mental mechanisms of hypocrisy, tracing its roots to adaptations that serve contradictory functions in the human brain, and to cognitive biases and distortions that predispose humans to readily perceive and condemn faults in others, while failing to perceive and condemn faults of their own.'

IOW, you can't unwittingly be a hypocrite. If you simply don't see the connection between what you condemn and what you do, that doesn't come within the meaning of hypocrisy. That, at least, is how I've always understood the meaning.

But, as I say, I was merely bringing it up under the impression that David Cameron was being initially referred to. I readily admit that in some cases hypocrisy might be valid. But even then there's the complication that some people (see Wiki above) may perceive that 'Circumstances alter cases', and what you do is wrong but what I do is, in the circumstances perfectly justifiable. That's possibly self-deluding rather than hypocrisy.

Ooops! Wrong thread :-)

[P. G. Tipps]

Well the difference of course - and this has been pointed out innumerable times - consists in the difference between insulting a person for something about which they can do nothing, namely race, and shouldn't be expected to; and something which a person hopefully chooses or not to be, without being forced, i.e. a follower of a religion.

Yes that has been said at least one or two times here and sometimes I've had to pinch myself that I've read the posts correctly!

So what you appear to be confirming is that people who get insulted because of their sincerely-held beliefs are responsible for any insults directed against them because they can easily change their beliefs and avoid all the hassle?

Quite extraordinary!

[Serial_Apologist]

OT, Panorama on at the moment is being devoted to Islam, not Tescos, as advertised.

[P. G. Tipps]

OT, Panorama on at the moment is being devoted to Islam, not Tescos, as advertised.

[Maclintick]

Perhaps not, but there is a difference between not being surprised at it, and being critical of it. The first does not prevent the second.

Sure, but I think my criticism of some world leaders attending yesterday's march is surely implied. No one who saw last year's footage of the asymmetric devastation in Gaza would feel comfortable at the sight of Netanyahu yesterday, surely ?

[Nick Armstrong]

sometimes I've had to pinch myself that I've read the posts correctly!

Join the 'black and blue' club!

[Beef Oven!]

Amazing, Holmes! But we were talking about politicians here.

You keep talking about politicians.