The May election

[ahinton]

But, for all the alternative voting systems in play elsewhere in the world, governments don't seem much better than ours (of whichever "persuasion") at coming up with solutions to what in the end are problems inherently systemic within capitalism.

I don't doubt that this is true but I have no reason to believe that it would be any the less true that none would likely be any better at coming up with solutions to promblems inherently systemic within the alternative; that said, it;s obviously the case that voiting systems of all kinds are one thing and ability and motivation to solve problems, howsoever caused, endemic or otherwise, are quite another.

So, given the limited room within the given options - and "third way" ideas seem to have been ruled outwith debate if the deafening silence amounts to a tacit admission that the establishment commentariat has run out of ideas - one should not be surprised that the purportedly much-sought middle ground occupies so tight a space for manoeuvre as to constitute no kind of democratic choice in the public mind.

At the risk of sounding repetitious, whilst it's painfully clear that most political parties' principal priority is to seize and retain some kind of power, none is likely to do this effectively if no majority government can be formed in the aftermath of the next UK General Election; a three-party majority coalition, even in the unlikely event that one such could be agreed between that number of parties, would inevitably be a neutered institution from the very outset.

[ahinton]

Keynes recognised that capitalism could work for the good of all if strictly regulated - hence the post-war Bretton Woods agreement with its fixed exchange rates and severe restrictions on capital flow across borders. For the 20 years before the 1973 oil price shock, there were no recessions in this country (though growth was admittedly patchy). But the rich and powerful had already started lobbying governments to gradually dismantle that agreement (whilst rubbishing Keynes's work). Now we are in the outrageous situation where, in effect, only one set of economic theories (the 'neo-classical' ones which benefit the rich and powerful) are studied in universities. Could that be because research in those places is funded by the rich and powerful? I fear so.

And what of the rôle of the oil price situation in today's political and economic climate?...

[Serial_Apologist]

I don't doubt that this is true but I have no reason to believe that it would be any the less true that none would likely be any better at coming up with solutions to promblems inherently systemic within the alternative; that said, it;s obviously the case that voiting systems of all kinds are one thing and ability and motivation to solve problems, howsoever caused, endemic or otherwise, are quite another.


At the risk of sounding repetitious, whilst it's painfully clear that most political parties' principal priority is to seize and retain some kind of power, none is likely to do this effectively if no majority government can be formed in the aftermath of the next UK General Election; a three-party majority coalition, even in the unlikely event that one such could be agreed between that number of parties, would inevitably be a neutered institution from the very outset.

... And for some of the very reasons I posed, I would suggest.

[Serial_Apologist]

And what of the rôle of the oil price situation in today's political and economic climate?...

Dependence on oil being the key issue. We can't have alternative energy as our main sourcing until we have production aims and methods less dependent on unsustainable product, and for that we need a new economic model not based on artificially stimulated "needs" but in keeping with the environment. Only the Greens are suggesting anything along these lines - or were.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

iirc the two politicos with the best support from the electorate were M Thatcher and T Blair ..... how do we secure a new electorate?

[MrGongGong]

Probably belongs in the basement?
(It's OK FF )

Some responses to Labours policy on arts cuts

(THAT'S ARTS, as in ABOUT MUSIC and so on )

http://usvsth3m.com/post/the-13-best-insults-tweeted-to-labour-yesterday

[ahinton]

Dependence on oil being the key issue. We can't have alternative energy as our main sourcing until we have production aims and methods less dependent on unsustainable product, and for that we need a new economic model not based on artificially stimulated "needs" but in keeping with the environment. Only the Greens are suggesting anything along these lines - or were.

That's right. Oil dependency is a damaging and antediluvian concept being kept alive with what's now beginning to look ever more like increasing desperation by those with both vested interests in it and blinkered vision about large- and small-scale development of sustainable alternatives; it's not merely the environmental benefits of those alternatives - it's also about the kinds of effective micro- as well as macro application that could ensure that individuals are able to take care of and responsibility for all or at least some of their energy needs rather than continuing to be dependent upon their governments, their corporate energy suppliers and the results of investment in fossil fuel exploration, extraction and distribution. In this I do believe that there is a possibility to "have it both ways", i.e. environmentally and economically, provided that there is suffieicnt will to ensure that the massive international fossil fuel obsession is gradually made to give way to a far more environmentally and economically healthier state of affairs to the benefit of large sections of society. All that would inevitably take considerable time and resources, but it won't do unless there is sufficient will and sustained determination in the first place.

I've not looked of late but I would hope that the Greens of all people would continue to support such moves.

[Serial_Apologist]

iirc the two politicos with the best support from the electorate were M Thatcher and T Blair ..... how do we secure a new electorate?

I don't think there's been a time in my lifetime when the mood among the general populace has been more anti-capitalist than now.

[ahinton]

iirc the two politicos with the best support from the electorate were M Thatcher and T Blair ..... how do we secure a new electorate?

Since I'm not convinced that either of these figures in recent British political history would any longer attract anything like the support that once they did, I wonder if perhaps we already have something of a "new electorate", at least to that extent; the largest problem that they're likely to face next May in their electoral capacity is that of being able to elect any government at all and, if anything, the absence of one in the immediate aftermath of the election is as likely to give rise to dismay and disincentivisation as anything else. We've all heard the "what's the point of voting?" arguments, but they might eventually come to attract some more serious currency if voting continues not to produce a viable majority government for any length of time.

[ahinton]

I don't think there's been a time in my lifetime when the mood among the general populace has been more anti-capitalist than now.

I don't think this is especially about support for or disparagement of capitalism per se and I say so not only because none of the parties fielding candidates in the forthcoming election will do so on an anti-capitalist footing; for example, the ideal solutions for the energy arguments that you so rightly put forward are not anti-capitalist by nature and I rather suspect that there's too much confused propaganda and consequent thinking along the lines of environmentally sound practice being inherently and fundamentally antonymous with capitalist practice. Yes, private individuals being better able to manage their own energy requirements than is now the case will mean less opportunities for greed and advantage taking by global energy corporations, but this seems to me to be more akin to shifting the extent and burden of capital from the big boys (and girls) to the smaller ones to the benefit of all.

[ardcarp]

I am supposed to be with politics, but I hold the rather unpopular view that Nick Clegg and his small party have been a brilliant brake on the worst excesses of The Right, and they would have been ditto with The Left had things gone the other way. I hope we get another coalition of whatever stripe. Meanwhile, I'm hoping not to think about it too much.

[Serial_Apologist]

Since I'm not convinced that either of these figures in recent British political history would any longer attract anything like the support that once they did, I wonder if perhaps we already have something of a "new electorate", at least to that extent; the largest problem that they're likely to face next May in their electoral capacity is that of being able to elect any government at all and, if anything, the absence of one in the immediate aftermath of the election is as likely to give rise to dismay and disincentivisation as anything else. We've all heard the "what's the point of voting?" arguments, but they might eventuall come to attract some more serious currency if voting continues not to produce a viable majority government for any length of time.

Nevertheless, in Message #37 I think you do present the bare bones of a partial solution for the medium term, one which attempts by citing the issue of responsibility to address our roles under the present system with having stakes in a more dependable future that makes producers of us as well as consumers in this crucial area of energy and resource conservation.

In response to ardcarp, a coalition of Labour, the Greens and the LibDems would be the most lilkely combination of present actors to provide subsidies in support of researching and provisioning alternative to the petrochemicals and bankers, with their stranglehold over the markets, and not just in energy. Ridding ourselves of any need for nuclear energy would have a likewise effect in terms of domestic security, for reasons that get more obvious by the day, as well as establishing a model for emulation worldwide.

[MrGongGong]

I really think you should ALL STOP NOW

I'm sure FF is getting a terrible sense of DeJa Vu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zBmqIFpzhU

[eighthobstruction]

I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that each of the politicians contain ten times more microbial cells than human cells....I mean who is really doing the talking?....

[Stillhomewardbound]

Well it's certainly pushing Newsnight to new heights of inspiration - last night we had Allegra Stratton doing a Bob Dylan in Subterranean Homesick Blues, tossing cards onto the ground to Mr D's soundtrack. Can they keep it up?

Last night's 'Newsnight' was quite desperate in its new guise of hipster 'GraphicsRUS'. Such a shame with some very good reporters how Ian Katz and his team make pantomime horses out of them.

As for the imbecile idea of having Emily Matliss jog her way around the country because we're facing an election 'marathon' (Gedditt!!): can no one at Newsnight count?!

This election is FOUR months away, SIXTEEN weeks away and EIGHTY Newsnight editions away. Can you imagine how tiresome that idea will be just by the end of January?

Still, at least Evan Davis was in suitably combatative form, the previous months having proved that by being nice to politicians and all 'let's look at the bigger picture' results only them in telling the same lines, but just unchallenged.