Audiology Department

[jayne lee wilson]

I respect your view, and agree it can enhance, but I would never say that it would deny the message (unless it was a case of disastrously extreme interference).

YOU make MY point, Ariosto... you didn't say "I respect your view" to me, even though Ed is making broadly similar observations. A for "Young Lady"... is it OK for me to call you an "Old Man"? Look at the detail and effort you put into your replies to Edashtav's observations, then your comment about "self-control"!!
And "pseudo-intellectual clap-trap"? (about a brief listing of R3 listening platforms)....HS's "kilo-bites" and poisonous snakes?!

Edashtav will never be an "Old Man' - in the metaphorical sense. He's too aware, self-aware and intelligently relativistic for that.
He's definitely an Explorer though...

As for your comments about HIFi Salespersons... here you're out of touch (shall I put "Old Man", here? Not nice, is it?) Almost everything I bought was by a home trial, easier to get if you find equipment ex-dem or 2ndhand. So you have say, a pair of speakers in your own room, your own system for up to 2 weeks... then return if you don't get on with them. Harbeth designer Alan Shaw lent me a much-factory-abused set of Harbeth C7s to try here, as they would give me a better impression of the model I would live with than a new pair...

The medium is the message? Marshall Mcluhan, 1964. Look it up. You might find The Vagenda interesting too... (not quite what you'll expect...)

[french frank]

Please stay cool, folks. A complaint was received and posts removed.

[Sir Velo]

Whether you listen to FM, DAB, MP3, FLAC, WAV, webstreams, CD, SACD or LP, never forget: the medium is the message.

I'm afraid this approach to listening is diametrically opposed to my own. The music and the performance must come first; the medium is just a means by which the performance can be heard, and is often industry led. Give me a great performance in adequate sound over a mediocre interpretation in state of the art audio any day.

[amateur51]

I'm afraid this approach to listening is diametrically opposed to my own. The music and the performance must come first; the medium is just a means by which the performance can be heard, and is often industry led. Give me a great performance in adequate sound over a mediocre interpretation in state of the art audio any day.

I have pretty rum hearing, the result of childhood middle-ear infections, penicillin therapy that left me with tinnitus and the genes from my father's side where everyone was exhorted to "Speak UP!!"

Even though I have never had 'good hearing', I can detect the difference when music is played through a 'good' system but for me it's right up there on the law of dimishing returns. As Thomas Heinitz told me when, as an impecunious student I went to him for hi-fi advice: "you can only listen to one set-up at a time". The lesson from this is that you should buy the system that impresses you at the price that you want to afford.

From her elegant and erudite reviews I suspect that jlw's hearing is infinitely better than mine and therefore fidelity is important to her and I admire her route to finding the best system for her and her money. Experience tells me that it would be money wasted on me - which is fine because it means that I have more money for CDs and concerts

[Petrushka]

I'm afraid this approach to listening is diametrically opposed to my own. The music and the performance must come first; the medium is just a means by which the performance can be heard, and is often industry led. Give me a great performance in adequate sound over a mediocre interpretation in state of the art audio any day.

I don't think that anybody (including JLW or Ariosto) would argue with this. Giving yourself the best possible means of achieving optimum performance and sonic standards is all part of the challenge. There must surely be a point that is reached beyond which the sonic level can hardly be bettered in a domestic environment and one doesn't need to spend thousands to get there.

I enjoy reading JLW's music and technical reviews and hope this spat won't have them disappearing. They are one of the glories of this Forum and long may they continue.

Performing or ex-performing musicians bring a different perspective and a different level of critical analysis to the Forum and that is evident in posts from HS and Ariosto. The two viewpoints don't need to be in opposition; there is room for both and long may that continue as well.

[edashtav]

I have pretty rum hearing, the result of childhood middle-ear infections, penicillin therapy that left me with tinnitus and the genes from my father's side where everyone was exhorted to "Speak UP!!"

Even though I have never had 'good hearing', I can detect the difference when music is played through a 'good' system but for me it's right up there on the law of dimishing returns. As Thomas Heinitz told me when, as an impecunious student I went to him for hi-fi advice: "you can only listen to one set-up at a time". The lesson from this is that you should buy the system that impresses you at the price that you want to afford.

From her elegant and erudite reviews I suspect that jlw's hearing is infinitely better than mine and therefore fidelity is important to her and I admire her route to finding the best system for her and her money. Experience tells me that it would be money wasted on me - which is fine because it means that I have more money for CDs and concerts

My sympathy goes out to you, Ams. I'm afraid that my "ear-history" resembles your own, [as I was allergic to penicillin, it wrought more damage than good] so so we're both in a similar condemnation.

Some sounds cause me physical pain e.g. screaming toddlers. I thank God that no composer has included a part for tiny tots -but I must admit to approaching 3 Screaming Popes with caution

Yes, we must look on the bright side - stacks of silver discs and plenty of live fare.

Jayne wins on the acuity stakes but we have our compensations.

[Flosshilde]

There must surely be a point that is reached beyond which the sonic level can hardly be bettered in a domestic environment

I think that's the key - my house isn't big enough to have a room set asside for listening to recorded/broadcast music, so any equipment has to fit in with what makes a comfortable sitting room used for all sorts of things - including listening to music.

I enjoy reading JLW's music and technical reviews and hope this spat won't have them disappearing. They are one of the glories of this Forum and long may they continue.

I'm afraid I tend to avoid them as they're full of technical detail - of both sorts - that go way beyond my understanding, and prose that tends towards the purplish; my loss, I'm sure.

[Petrushka]

I think that's the key - my house isn't big enough to have a room set asside for listening to recorded/broadcast music, so any equipment has to fit in with what makes a comfortable sitting room used for all sorts of things - including listening to music.




I'm afraid I tend to avoid them as they're full of technical detail - of both sorts - that go way beyond my understanding, and prose that tends towards the purplish; my loss, I'm sure.

I enjoy JLW's technical (musical) reviews because there is always something there to learn. This is why I so greatly miss programmes on R3 that delved a bit more into the technical/musicological aspect of pieces I thought I knew. If something is beyond my understanding I like the challenge of making it understood.

[Thropplenoggin]

I enjoy JLW's technical (musical) reviews because there is always something there to learn. This is why I so greatly miss programmes on R3 that delved a bit more into the technical/musicological aspect of pieces I thought I knew. If something is beyond my understanding I like the challenge of making it understood.

Ignorance isn't bliss.

[soileduk]

Ignorance isn't bliss.

Hi Throppers,
Enjoying the 'Wam? Perhaps we should have a 'Carpark' on here.

[Thropplenoggin]

Hi Throppers,
Enjoying the 'Wam?

Mostly no. For more details, PM me.

Perhaps we should have a 'Carpark' on here.

[Tony Halstead]

I don't think that anybody (including JLW or Ariosto) would argue with this. Giving yourself the best possible means of achieving optimum performance and sonic standards is all part of the challenge. There must surely be a point that is reached beyond which the sonic level can hardly be bettered in a domestic environment and one doesn't need to spend thousands to get there.

I enjoy reading JLW's music and technical reviews and hope this spat won't have them disappearing. They are one of the glories of this Forum and long may they continue.

Performing or ex-performing musicians bring a different perspective and a different level of critical analysis to the Forum and that is evident in posts from HS and Ariosto. The two viewpoints don't need to be in opposition; there is room for both and long may that continue as well.

Absolutely agreed and 'seconded'!

[Ariosto]

YES! Recent posts on this 'ere thread are right on the ball. (Testicular I know but then I'm an out and out sexist, and a useless old man). (OK, I've been outed at last - thanks, Jane). I can't gratulate you enough for reminding me of my true status. So now I will belt up and enjoy the lovely sunshine.

[Ariosto]

Please stay cool, folks. A complaint was received and posts removed.

Oh Sarah darling (cool reason at last) - there is nothing more I crave than a bit of space. I will say a million hale mary's and lash myself with the god appointed whip until I bleed to death - only hearing Beethoven's (who is that moron?) opus 131 in C sharp minor quartet as I draw my last breath (supping wine and whiskey at that exact moment). I will then be ressurected to be the general admin over the destruction of ALL electronic (so called) Hi-Fi equipment and all music critics who will have to bleed to death in hell, alone and with dried up examples of music making, like Mr what's his name Roger something or other... (He's not a conductor in case you were thinking that ...)

Oh for a something, somthing, as a totally impure sexist I must die on the cross. (Sorry Shakespeare - my memory is failing - and I'm just a very old man. Excuses, exscuses ...)

But I think there is still a lot of B/S. (But it's up to you ALL to decide where it's a coming from). (If it's from me then say so, and I will commit whatever the Japanese call it )

Footty-note: if you believe any of this B/S then you are total fools!!

[Thropplenoggin]

Oh Sarah darling (cool reason at last) - there is nothing more I crave than a bit of space. I will say a million hale mary's and lash myself with the god appointed whip until I bleed to death - only hearing Beethoven's (who is that moron?) opus 131 in C sharp minor quartet as I draw my last breath (supping wine and whiskey at that exact moment). I will then be ressurected to be the general admin over the destruction of ALL electronic (so called) Hi-Fi equipment and all music critics who will have to bleed to death in hell, alone and with dried up examples of music making, like Mr what's his name Roger something or other... (He's not a conductor in case you were thinking that ...)

Oh for a something, somthing, as a totally impure sexist I must die on the cross. (Sorry Shakespeare - my memory is failing - and I'm just a very old man. Excuses, exscuses ...)

But I think there is still a lot of B/S. (But it's up to you ALL to decide where it's a coming from). (If it's from me then say so, and I will commit whatever the Japanese call it )

Footty-note: if you believe any of this B/S then you are total fools!!

KING LEAR:

Pray, do not mock me.
I am a very foolish fond old man,
Fourscore and upward, not an hour more nor less.
And to deal plainly
I fear I am not in my perfect mind.


King Lear, Act IV, vii