Who Killed Classical Music?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Schönberg's paintings chiefly date from 1909 - 1911, and there are none after 1919. The "period" in which he wrote in what has been described as "[t]he twelve-note system" dates from 1923. (And anyone who refers to Schönberg's Twelve-note Music as somehow following a "system" is ignorant either of the meaning of the word, or of Schönberg's Music or of both.)

Intersting examples of dementia have been demonstrated in #223, but none refer to Schönberg's paintings, all of which (together with his drawings and sketches) can be found here:

http://www.schoenberg.at/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=339&lang=en

[Richard Barrett]

I would remark here only that I do not agree that "electronic music has no future as the basis of a satisfying Art-form." On the contrary, provided its users keep to a world of pitched sounds and harmonies, it IS the future.

Oops, too late!

[Serial_Apologist]

Oops, too late!

Yep - should have pitched those sounds earlier, Richard!

[Richard Barrett]

Yep - should have pitched those sounds earlier, Richard!

I know, I know, but between you and me I don't really see how Sydney Grew's harmony police are going to enforce their prohibitions now or in the future.

[Sydney Grew]

I'm surprised that got past your pedant's eye

And I am astonished!

It may have been Andrew Porter

Many thanks to member Belgrove for that.

. . . with electronic music, the composer is free to choose [any] pitch or frequency, merely by typing in the frequency value or turning a dial. So it may be a little difficult to persuade him to stick to harmonies.

Quite so Mr. Oddball. All kinds of non-traditional scales are possible, using all kinds of non-traditional criteria, for example the octave may be divided into twenty steps, or fifteen, or twelve but a twelve different from the twelve we are accustomed to hear from the piano-forte. My use of the word "harmonies" encompasses all those possibilities in their combinations, just so long as the pitches are distinct.

[ahinton]

I know, I know, but between you and me I don't really see how Sydney Grew's harmony police are going to enforce their prohibitions now or in the future.

They might enforce them upon Mr Grew himself but, since he never lets us see any of his scores or hear any of his music, that's no concern of the rest of us, presumably.

[Richard Barrett]

All kinds of non-traditional scales are possible, using all kinds of non-traditional criteria, for example the octave may be divided into twenty steps, or fifteen, or twelve but a twelve different from the twelve we are accustomed to hear from the piano-forte. My use of the word "harmonies" encompasses all those possibilities in their combinations, just so long as the pitches are distinct.

So it was Sydney Grew who killed classical music!

[MrGongGong]

My use of the word "harmonies" encompasses all those possibilities in their combinations, just so long as the pitches are distinct.

What would happen if they were indistinct ?
The sky would fall in ?



So can you be clear here Sid, are you really suggesting that all sounds without a clear sense of pitch aren't permissible?

Bonkers

[kea]

These exchanges are growing exceedingly tiresome.

This message is hidden because Sydney Grew is on your ignore list.

Let's just move on.

[Sydney Grew]

What would happen if they were indistinct ?
The sky would fall in ?
are you really suggesting that all sounds without a clear sense of pitch aren't permissible?

Bonkers

William Blake ("Constable Blake the enforcer" ahinton?) covered the whole matter: "unorganized Blots & Blurs are not Art. . . . The great and golden rule of Art, as well as of life, is that the more distinct, sharp, and wirey the bounding line, the more perfect the work of Art; and the less keen and sharp, the greater is the evidence of weak imitation, plagiarism, and bungling."

Blake was by no means "bonkers." The principles of, and essential nature of, a work of Art have been forgotten or ignored over the course of the period under discussion in this thread. But even the common people can still recognize when some one is trying and when some one is not.

[Serial_Apologist]

"unorganized Blots & Blurs are not Art. . . . The great and golden rule of Art, as well as of life, is that the more distinct, sharp, and wirey the bounding line, the more perfect the work of Art; and the less keen and sharp, the greater is the evidence of weak imitation, plagiarism, and bungling."

I'm not acquainted with your Blake quote, but, if Blake would have considered hard-edged abstraction acceptable - which by analogy you are suggesting - why complain about Schoenberg's 12-tone serialism? No unorganised blots and blurs there!

[MrGongGong]

I'm not acquainted with your Blake quote, but, if Blake would have considered hard-edged abstraction acceptable - which by analogy you are suggesting - why complain about Schoenberg's 12-tone serialism? No unorganised blots and blurs there!

I've been looking for a quote that best exemplifies the concept of total bollocks for a while and while i'm a great admirer of Blake
this

The great and golden rule of Art, as well as of life, is that the more distinct, sharp, and wirey the bounding line, the more perfect the work of Art; and the less keen and sharp, the greater is the evidence of weak imitation, plagiarism, and bungling

Fits the bill
Thanks Sid

Quoting someone who is obviously confused says nothing

[Honoured Guest]

Sydney grew
From 54,000 in 1851
To 494,200 in 1901.

Who knew
Or cared enough
To write a tonal opera about it?

Sydney Grew.

[Richard Barrett]

The idea of justifying one's own silly aesthetic prejudices by quoting the words of an artist (in a different discipline) who died almost three hundred years ago is doubly silly, isn't it?

Especially when Blake also said: "Harmony of colouring is destructive of art... it is like the smile of a fool."

[Richard Barrett]

The idea of justifying one's own silly aesthetic prejudices by quoting the words of an artist (in a different discipline) who died almost three hundred years ago is doubly silly, isn't it?

Especially when Blake also said: "Harmony of colouring is destructive of art... it is like the smile of a fool"

- which SG would presumably not object to being extended to music.