Who Killed Classical Music?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • ahinton
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 16122

    Originally posted by Honoured Guest View Post
    Sycophancy to the powers that be?
    On the parts of Britten, Matthews and Simpson? Hardly!

    Comment

    • Richard Barrett

      Originally posted by Honoured Guest View Post
      Sycophancy to the powers that be?
      I don't know about Britten and Matthews, but Simpson was the very opposite of a sycophant.

      Anyway, the "decision" I was talking about seems to have taken place, perhaps somewhat gradually, much more recently than the days of Keller et al.

      Comment

      • ahinton
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 16122

        Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
        I don't know about Britten and Matthews, but Simpson was the very opposite of a sycophant.
        Quite so, as anyone who's read The Proms and Natural Justice would know! I'd have thought that, in Britten's case, any sycophancy would probably have been in the opposite direction. Sycophancy isn't David Matthews's style either.

        Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
        Anyway, the "decision" I was talking about seems to have taken place, perhaps somewhat gradually, much more recently than the days of Keller et al.
        Indeed - and has gone more or less hand in hand with the general dumbing down process, I think.

        Comment

        • Quarky
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 2655

          Originally posted by Sydney Grew View Post
          Well - I have two final questions for member Hinton:

          1) Why twelve notes? I have asked this question many times but no one has ever ventured an answer. Why not eleven, say, or seven plus one, or six? There cannot possibly be any musical reason for the twelve every time round can there? Why not simply select the note you want when you want it (i.e. free pan-tonalism)? (And that the note you want is the next one in some fixed "row" should not be the reason why you want it should it?)

          .
          As has been stated, he had to start somewhere. However I do believe Brian Ferneyhough recently composed something for a quarter tone oboe, which was played on Hear and Now. That would give 28 (?) notes.

          Comment

          • ahinton
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 16122

            Originally posted by Oddball View Post
            As has been stated, he had to start somewhere. However I do believe Brian Ferneyhough recently composed something for a quarter tone oboe, which was played on Hear and Now. That would give 48 notes.
            24, surely?! I didn't hear it, but presumably Schatten aus Wasser und Stein for oboe and string quartet at HCMF - http://www.hcmf.co.uk/event/show/342 - on one of the Redgate instruments - see http://www.21stcenturyoboe.com/

            See
            Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

            and
            Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.


            Here's a review - http://5against4.com/2013/11/18/54-a...atuor-diotima/

            Quatuor Diotima are all that the reviewer cracks them up to be and more.
            Last edited by ahinton; 28-01-14, 15:08.

            Comment

            • Quarky
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 2655

              Apologies, my mental arithmetic is suspect.

              Comment

              • Richard Barrett

                Originally posted by Oddball View Post
                However I do believe Brian Ferneyhough recently composed something for a quarter tone oboe, which was played on Hear and Now. That would give 28 (?) notes.
                There are 24 quartertones in an octave (two times twelve!). The Howarth-Redgate system oboe, which has been written for by several composers including myself, isn't just a "quartertone oboe" - the normal instrument can play quartertones pretty well actually, although with less fluency than the new system - but also has an extended upper register, and other modifications which render certain multiphonic sounds easier to produce.

                Comment

                • MrGongGong
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 18357

                  and to this "question"

                  2) As has already been observed, the common people stay away in droves from performances of modern music. Why is the member unable or unwilling to accept their judgement? There are two obvious remedies are there not: either re-educate the people (very unlikely) or write more attractive music.
                  You are simply wrong about people 'staying away'

                  You are mixing up taste with value (but doing so in en extremely obtuse and verbose way)
                  The "common people" also "stay away" from Bach's music
                  so that must be because it's crap as well

                  Comment

                  • ahinton
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 16122

                    Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                    You are simply wrong about people 'staying away'

                    You are mixing up taste with value (but doing so in en extremely obtuse and verbose way)
                    He also declines to provide statistics to prove the case that he believes that he has - which surprises me little.

                    Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                    The "common people" also "stay away" from Bach's music so that must be because it's crap as well
                    I said more or less as much myself, albeit without specifically mentioning either Bach or excrement.

                    It should be obvious that if, even among the tiny minority of the population as a whole who attend prformances and purchase recordings of Western "classical" music, the majority had steered well clear of those of or including "modern music" (whatever that may mean - and to read SG's posts one could be forgiven that he doesn't mean "modern music" at all but most music composed during the past 120 years or so), there would soon have been a massive decline in such performances and recordings which is clearly not the case.
                    Last edited by ahinton; 28-01-14, 18:11.

                    Comment

                    • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                      Gone fishin'
                      • Sep 2011
                      • 30163

                      Originally posted by kea View Post
                      Thirteen is unlucky.
                      This didn't stop either Stockhausen (Mantra) or Harvey (Whom Ye Adore) from using thirteen-note series.

                      And most of Schoenberg's Serial Music from Mose onwards is hexachordal and/or tetrachordal in construction
                      [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                      Comment

                      • Eine Alpensinfonie
                        Host
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 20569

                        All this denial about a 12 note scale.
                        It derives from the harmonic series, albeit modified by the adoption of equal temperament. Like it or not, all music is based on something.

                        Comment

                        • Quarky
                          Full Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 2655

                          Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                          All this denial about a 12 note scale.
                          It derives from the harmonic series, albeit modified by the adoption of equal temperament. Like it or not, all music is based on something.
                          Well, harmonic series are very scientific, and all scientific phemonena involving waves are based on modes, overtones, etc.

                          But it does not seem to me that because this is an attractive way of dividing up the audible spectrum, it is not the only division that may produce musically engaging results.

                          Comment

                          • Eine Alpensinfonie
                            Host
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 20569

                            I agree. All I was saying was that there was logic in the 12 note system.

                            Comment

                            • MrGongGong
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 18357

                              Originally posted by Oddball View Post
                              Well, harmonic series are very scientific, and all scientific phemonena involving waves are based on modes, overtones, etc.

                              But it does not seem to me that because this is an attractive way of dividing up the audible spectrum, it is not the only division that may produce musically engaging results.
                              Spot on
                              Harry Partch (one of many) being a classic example IMV

                              Comment

                              • Sydney Grew
                                Banned
                                • Mar 2007
                                • 754

                                Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post

                                You are mixing up taste with value (but doing so in en extremely obtuse and verbose way)
                                The "common people" also "stay away" from Bach's music
                                so that must be because it's crap as well

                                Yes full stops can be overwhelming for a first-timer . . . But do struggle on! Nil desperandum! The rewards will come . . . eventually. Not to feel left out is the great good thing.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X