Who Killed Classical Music?

[Serial_Apologist]

Next Tuesday, Jan 21 - 11.30am, on, note, Radio4

"Gabriel Prokofiev (grandson of Sergei Prokofiev) discusses how composers such as Schoenberg killed off 20th-century classical music for all but a limited elite", it says on the page in that inimitably objective, non-partisan way that is becoming the broadcaster's hallmark across all wavelengths these days. Ivan Hewett, Sandy Goehr, Tansy Davies "and others" being brought in as "experts". I think I can forsee how this discussion will invevitably go.

[rauschwerk]

Next Tuesday, Jan 21 - 11.30am, on, note, Radio4

"Gabriel Prokofiev (grandson of Sergei Prokofiev) discusses how composers such as Schoenberg killed off 20th-century classical music for all but a limited elite", it says on the page in that inimitably objective, non-partisan way that is becoming the broadcaster's hallmark across all wavelengths these days. Ivan Hewett, Sandy Goehr, Tansy Davies "and others" being brought in as "experts". I think I can forsee how this discussion will invevitably go.

Sounds like a load of rubbish to me. I hate the notion that any minority who like a certain type of music must be labelled 'an elite'.

[Honoured Guest]

"I think I can foresee how this discussion will inevitably go." (Serial_Apologist)
"... the notion that any minority who like a certain type of music must be labelled 'an elite'." (rauschwerk)

Might your prejudgments prove misfounded? Laurence Joyce's preview in Radio Times ends with:

"But like all good murder mysteries there's a twist: perhaps no crime was committed in the first place?"

[Richard Barrett]

Who killed intelligent discussion of contemporary music on Radio 3?

[ahinton]

Who killed intelligent discussion of contemporary music on Radio 3?

Dunno, guv - but it the death occurred quite some while ago, methinks.

I read this stuff in RT myself and I have to admit that I was quite surprised to observe what on the face of it appears to be yet another attempt to besmirch the name of Arnold Schönberg as the bogeyman of 20th century music. Tiresome or what? I'm sad to see Goehr letting himself be dragged into this; surely he doesn't need the money?...

[EnemyoftheStoat]

Don't you mean Schoenberg and Göhr?

[rauschwerk]

I expect the 'twist' will be that since Benjamin Frankel and others used Schoenberg's technique in film music, then it was ok after all.

[Richard Barrett]

As for this "elite" nonsense, do those people ever ask themselves what sector of society was listening to (what is now called) "classical" music in the 19th century? in the 14th? A tiny proportion of those alive at the time, I dare say. I wouldn't think it's unrealistic to imagine that a greater proportion of the world's population today listen to Schoenberg than the proportion that heard say Monteverdi in the century he lived in. Mind you, some people back then were of the opinion that Monteverdi had destroyed music, which just goes to show how silly such opinions come to sound.

I note also that all the "experts" mentioned are ex-students of "elite" music-education institutions, so I guess they know what they're talking about.

[Honoured Guest]

Another 'twist' could be that Schoenberg and beyond so successfully "killed off 20th-century classical music for all but a limited elite" that they eventually left the field open for late 20th and early 21st century composers to re-engage, in an unprescribed cornucopia of styles, with much wider audiences with an interest in music.

[french frank]

"Gabriel Prokofiev (grandson of Sergei Prokofiev) discusses how composers such as Schoenberg killed off 20th-century classical music for all but a limited elite", it says on the page in that inimitably objective, non-partisan way that is becoming the broadcaster's hallmark across all wavelengths these days. Ivan Hewett, Sandy Goehr, Tansy Davies "and others" being brought in as "experts". I think I can forsee how this discussion will invevitably go.

No Norman Lebrecht?

[ahinton]

Don't you mean Schoenberg and Göhr?

I mean Schönberg - though arguably also Schoenberg - since the wholly specious "argument" that this composer allegedly "killed off 20th-century classical music for all but a limited élite" dates back to the days well before he adopted the Americanised spelling.

[ahinton]

As for this "elite" nonsense, do those people ever ask themselves what sector of society was listening to (what is now called) "classical" music in the 19th century? in the 14th? A tiny proportion of those alive at the time, I dare say. I wouldn't think it's unrealistic to imagine that a greater proportion of the world's population today listen to Schoenberg than the proportion that heard say Monteverdi in the century he lived in.

Nor would I, not least because of the obvious fact there recordings and broadcasts were not available in Monteverdi's time.

Mind you, some people back then were of the opinion that Monteverdi had destroyed music, which just goes to show how silly such opinions come to sound.

Indeed.

I note also that all the "experts" mentioned are ex-students of "elite" music-education institutions, so I guess they know what they're talking about.

!!! - though I'm not so sure why they're talking about it, though - apart, perhaps, from the fees that licence payers will pay them for doing so...

What concerns me (insofar as I could be bothered to be "concerned" at all) is that, if all the evidence to be presented is for the prosecution, ought there not, in the interests of balance and of that much-vaunted phenomenon known as "British justice", to be a follow-up programme presenting evidence for the defence? Step forward expert witnesses Barrett and - well, some more, anyway; volunteers, anyone? (preferably from non-élite music education institutional backgrounds)...

[ahinton]

No Norman Lebrecht?

For once!...

[teamsaint]

Ah, so the composers both created the music, but simultaneously killed it.

I see.



Edit:just heard the MacMillan Viola Concerto premiere on R3. Classical music didn't sound dead to me.

[Richard Barrett]

Ah, so the composers both created the music, but simultaneously killed it.

The last time I looked, it wasn't composers who were in such a position of power over the life or death of anything... that would be major cultural institutions such as concert halls, orchestras, opera houses, broadcast companies, recording labels and so on. It may seem a bit silly to be so critical of a programme that hasn't been broadcast yet, but the write up on the Radio 4 site is bad enough.

"Until the early 20th century, each composer of classical music developed his own style built on the traditions of previous composers. Then Arnold Schoenberg changed all this, by devising 'Serialism' where melodies were no longer allowed."

Schoenberg's music is of course built very clearly on the traditions of previous composers. Nor of course are melodies no longer allowed in his work.

"In the 1950s, composers such as Pierre Boulez created 'Total Serialism' (...) And the sense of composers being remote from their audience was exacerbated by the elevation of musical performance to a kind of ritual."

And of course the performance of the music of Boulez and his colleagues was no more "ritualised" than the performance of "classical" music had become: it is of course generally presented to the public in exactly the same way as are more traditional works, so it's hard to see how Boulez or any other "Serialist" composers can be held responsible.

"But even at a time when Serialism gripped major parts of the classical music establishment, music that was overtly emotional was still being written by composers such as Shostakovich and Prokofiev in Russia."

And of course in the West by the more traditionally-minded composers whose names I hardly need to list.

"Ironically, in these countries, the State continued to support classical music, whereas in more liberal regimes in Europe it retreated to the intellectual margins."

What is so bad about the human intellect that it needs to be despised as "marginal"?

"Now the Serialist experiment has been largely abandoned and a whole new generation of composers - including Gabriel himself - is embracing popular culture, just as composers used to in the past when folk music or dance music were a major source of inspiration."

There is of course nothing "new" about this, there have always been composer who have drawn on popular traditions for their work, and there have always been composers for whom this wasn't such a priority.

"So has the death of classical music been exaggerated? Will it find new homes and new means of expression to attract the audiences of the future?"

Yes of course, to both questions. But anyone with their eyes and ears open would know that. I would imagine that the participants in the discussion (apart from Hewett) will be able to come up with something more insightful and factually accurate than this dumbed-down misinformation.