What about Cheltenham eh?

[Ian]

I guess it's a bit like my comment, which sort of wonders what makes music 'bad', or 'good' for that matter.

[french frank]

I aways find the old chestnut (attributed to many musical sages) about music being either good or bad very puzzling. There is really such a rigid distinction? Would there be general agreement about whether a particular piece of music should be assigned to Basket A (Good Music) or Basket B (Bad Music)?

[ahinton]

I aways find the old chestnut (attributed to many musical sages) about music being either good or bad very puzzling. There is really such a rigid distinction? Would there be general agreement about whether a particular piece of music should be assigned to Basket A (Good Music) or Basket B (Bad Music)?

Fair comment as far as it is capable of going, but then does it not illustrate / parallel the very problem of how to categorise relatively recently composed/improvised music and why? How good, bad, avant-garde, non-"cutting-edge" and all the rest is any of it in terms of the potential or actual responses or otherwise of its infinite variety of listeners?

[french frank]

the potential or actual responses or otherwise of its infinite variety of listeners?

One might even wonder whether the more valid starting point is the individual listener rather than the piece of music. Good and bad depend(s) on the myriad expectations, preferences and attitudes (musical and non musical) of that listener.

[Ian]

Fair comment as far as it is capable of going, but then does it not illustrate / parallel the very problem of how to categorise relatively recently composed/improvised music and why?

I think the 'why' is to do with marketing, which, in turn is often to do with which door the music comes out of. Even music, which, relatively speaking, is broadly similar, can be judged to be be at opposite ends of the 'value' scale depending on which sector of the market the music emerges - or is seen to be intended for.

[ahinton]

I think the 'why' is to do with marketing, which, in turn is often to do with which door the music comes out of. Even music, which, relatively speaking, is broadly similar, can be judged to be be at opposite ends of the 'value' scale depending on which sector of the market the music emerges - or is seen to be intended for.

I think that you're right about this - but then so much seems now to depend upon marketing, PR and the like and, as what I suppose must be an inevitable consequence in the present context, "convenience" labelling occurs which at times is prone to causing confusion rather than providing informative illustration.

[3rd Viennese School]

I’ve heard pieces in my time and thought “He’s either a genius and we aren’t getting it, or it’s complete cxxx.”

Such as Ives Symphony no.4 first time round. (And second!)
3VS

[eighthobstruction]

....This thread inadvertently sprang up out of no-where while I was posting something [much to my surprise]....it's not about Horse Racing I might say ....it is from 2011.... but the old lost names and quality of aurgument are fabulous....