Richard Barrett CONSTRUCTION

[Panjandrum]

I'm not forgetting that; would you assume that everything in the reaminder of Syria is fine, then?...

I had hoped that my laboured and literal response to your own post would have had the effect of holding up a mirror to your own post: I now see how forlorn such a hope was.

[ahinton]

I had hoped that my laboured and literal response to your own post would have had the effect of holding up a mirror to your own post: I now see how forlorn such a hope was.

At least you can see (in your own mirror, perhaps)! Anyway, what matters is whether Simon has any kind of conversion and we'll have to wait for his response to Richard Barrett's piece when he's listened to it.

[Bryn]

my point was not the amount of one's life spent listening to a piece, nor the familiarity; rather and perhaps unfairly to equate length with ambition ... is the piece doing anything on the scale of the Art of Fugue or the Ninth, if not why such monumental length? what is it for? if it is a mere quotidian duree why listen? is it a compendium such as the Art or a Monument such as the Ninth?

What did you make of last night's TtN broadcast of the The Art of Fugue, aka? Nice touch starting off with the opening chorale from BWV38, eh?

[Boilk]

Funny isn't it, how these avant garde über-serious composers write lots of stand-alone shortish pieces over several years, and then group them together as a vast cycle of works, presumably to make a more epic statement? Is it hoped that these alleged cycles - comprising works written for different performers (and presumably through different commissioning bodies) - will invoke all the seriousness of attention which has traditionally greeted the symphonic utterance of yesteryear? Have multi-work cycles become the modern-day child of the multi-movement symphony? There was Ferneyhough's Carceri d'Invenzione of the 1980s, more recently James Dillon's monumental (although perfectly digestible) Nine Rivers (1982-c.2000). And now Barrett's multi-work (rather than multi-movement) Construction (sic., since it's presumably not an acronym).

To me these cycles have the whiff of "put all these pieces together, and I'll maybe get taken more seriously". But, heaven forbid, one reviewer cites that Construction (sic.) itself belongs to Barrett's even larger cycle of entitled Resistance and Vision. Der Ring des Nibelungen and Licht, better watch out

[hackneyvi]

Funny isn't it, how these avant garde über-serious composers write lots of stand-alone shortish pieces over several years, and then group them together as a vast cycle of works, presumably to make a more epic statement? ... To me these cycles have the whiff of "put all these pieces together, and I'll maybe get taken more seriously". But, heaven forbid, one reviewer cites that Construction (sic.) itself belongs to Barrett's even larger cycle of entitled Resistance and Vision.

I must admit that I haven't heard this piece either and doubt now that I will as I'm out tonight. But what does Barrett (I'd never heard of him before) say of the pieces himself? Could these fragmentary pieces not work as individual songs or pictures from a collection so that however diffuse the impressions might seem, nevertheless there is a connection between them which could be considered thematic even if the theme is solely the composer's own frame of mind. It doesn't seem illegitimate to me though the parallel between these scales of work and 19th century symphonies seems valid, too.

A piece of such size must surely have intentions. Although it's fragments may be, the thing is compiled so it's not just dashed off. Can anyone tell us what the intentions are? Or is it a sketchbook work?

[hackneyvi]

i still have not listened, mostly because i have a problem with how long this piece appears to require to hear it .... i mean the Art of Fugue i somewhere arounf 1hr 50m

Re sheer length, I have a similar feeling about Mahler. But with Bach, wouldn't we be accustomed to hearing excerpts from this; that whilst it is (an incomplete) whole, pleasure and satisfaction can be got from hearing parts.

Which makes me think - I've got a hour before I need to go out and I might as well give Barrett my ear.

Perhaps reason here is what mucks up the listening. We don't say we need to hear the whole thing to say what we might feel about a portion; but might be expected to hear the whole thing to make other kinds of judgement about it. But what are we judging if we're not judging our feelings about music?

I suppose I mean that giving a thing of this length a fair chance doesn't have to mean listening to it in its entirety and, though its length has deterred me all week, on reflection I can't think why.

[heliocentric]

Funny isn't it, how these avant garde über-serious composers write lots of stand-alone shortish pieces over several years, and then group them together as a vast cycle of works, presumably to make a more epic statement?

The composer said in his introduction that it was planned as a single work from the very start, and it's clear from the Huddersfield Festival wesbite that it was also (unlike the Ferneyhough and Dillon examples you mention) commissioned as such. Did you listen to it? If so, what was there about it that gave it the "whiff" you mention? If not, what's with the pontificating?

[french frank]

I think someone put up a link to the programme note somewhere - no? Can anyone help with finding it?

[hackneyvi]

4 sections (?) form a micro-opera based on The Trojan Women;
5 fragments which could form, if compiled, a violin concerto;
10 sections (the remainder): half have electronics in the foreground, half have the instruments;
All the parts run continuously or simultaneously or something.

Utopian ideas and spontaneous and pre-planned thinking / action are er have um something to um do (wa diddy diddy dum diddy doo) with it er.

An inspiration was Bacon - angular juxtapositions with disturbing events occuring within the setting.

God um he er he's a ahh boring er oh-wa er speaker (but I appreciate er that he um that he er was er nervous um).

The 9 members of his audience must have been quite overwhelming to confront.

[heliocentric]

The 9 members of his audience must have been quite overwhelming to confront.

I'm sorry but what evidence do you have for the size of the audience? since you obviously weren't there.

[hackneyvi]

I'm about 15 minutes in and I think that the mini-opera might have started.

So far, it's sounding pretty much like a new music parody.

I'm reading Tolstoy at the moment and I think he would have despised this. It's not really making any mark on me at all, though, so far.

Oh, wait though ... There's an unintelligible woman swooping in Greek that I fancy would be incomprehensible even if Greek was a language I spoke. She's starting to get on my tits.

[hackneyvi]

I'm sorry but what evidence do you have for the size of the audience? since you obviously weren't there.

You're quite right, I wasn't there and the audience may have numbered in the thousands. But I fancied I could hear individual pairs of hands clapping in an echoic acoustic, which I took to be a sign of thin attendance.

But size isn't everything.

I've done 30 minutes and I feel ... it's of no interest to me.

[heliocentric]

I fancied I could hear individual pairs of hands clapping in an echoic acoustic

That would be because the main microphones used to pick up the general sound were right in the middle of the audience and therefore quite close to some pairs of hands, and I know that because I was there, and found the turnout not bad at all for a concert (the fourth in the festival that day IIRC) that everyone knew wouldn't end until quarter to one in the morning. What's more nobody left the auditorium during the performance. Not that any of that should mean that it ought to be of any interest to you of course. I just wonder why you make these cynical assumptions.

[ahinton]

The 9 members of his audience must have been quite overwhelming to confront.

I wasn't present either but I have to say that anyone incapable of deducing from the applause that the number of audience members must have been in three figures would have an aural capacity so limited as to enable him/her to derive very little from the music...

[John Skelton]

I think someone put up a link to the programme note somewhere - no? Can anyone help with finding it?

I linked to the hcmf website, ff

http://www.hcmf.co.uk/Richard-Barrett-a-monumental-CONSTRUCTION