Pre-Hear - 22 October 2011 - Causton, Goehr and more REBECCA SAUNDERS

[Guest]

Richard CAUSTON: Phoenix - Philharmonia Orchestra, conducted by Ryan Wigglesworth

Alexander GOEHR: Since Brass nor Stone, for String Quartet and percussion - Pavel Haas Quartet/Colin Currie

Rebecca SAUNDERS: Violin Concerto (BBC commission, world premiere) - Carolin Widmann, violin; BBC Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Sylvain Cambreling.

[Roehre]

As Rebecca Saunders hasn't yet convinced me of being an interesting composer, I was not surprised to find that the two works of hers in H&N again didn't actually spark more interest into her output either, I am afraid.
For me the main piece were the 13 minutes or so of Goehr's Since Brass nor Stone opus 80, showing what you can do with a nicked idea. The Causton is a lovely piece again (like last week's chamber symphony) - the point of departure interesting but knowledge of it completely superfluous.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

As Rebecca Saunders hasn't yet convinced me of being an interesting composer, I was not surprised to find that the two works of hers in H&N again didn't actually spark more interest into her output either, I am afraid.

Oh NO, Roehre!! I adore Saunders' Music: it's utterly captivating, both delicate and granite tough, with a real sense of momentum and such heart-rending tenderness. The most interesting composer of her generation (her namesake James running not far behind) she is someone whose work makes me rejoice to hear: great joy. PLEASE listen again, I beg you. ("Two works", by the way?)


CAUSTON: Pah! Second Cheltenham School!

[Roehre]

FHG, I will listen to Saunders' music again, as comments like yours (much appreciated, btw!) always intrigue me whether it's me or the music.... and my opinion isn't set in stone therefore (but last year's Proms premiere didn't convince me either, I am afraid)
Two works of Saunders', indeed: between Goehr's piece and the premiere recording of Saunders' violin concerto "Still" her 1996 piece Molly's Song 3 was broadcast (unannounced on the R3 site).

My appreciation of Causton's music isn't set in stone yet either, btw

[hackneyvi]

The Causton is a lovely piece again (like last week's chamber symphony) - the point of departure interesting but knowledge of it completely superfluous.

My appreciation of Causton's music isn't set in stone yet either, btw

I listened to the symphony last week, Roehre, and couldn't make anything of it. It seemed so 'pasty', thin and colourless. I forget what it's intentions were but it was listening to the orchestral accompaniment of a rock piece without the components that explained the orchestral contribution. A real baffler for me.

I think I had a sense in the Saunders pieces that were broadcast in August that, as with Judith Weir, there's something palpably feminine in the music that differentiates it from the almost relentlessly male music, musicians and music commentators that I hear. In itself, it was very enjoyable music, intelligent but lacking masculine angst. Elegant, eloquent but not dogmatic; music that didn't stamp its little foot. (I don't know what that's supposed to mean either; I think I felt the music sought to be more than it sought actively to impress. I liked that, it's unselfconsciousness)

[Roehre]

I listened to the symphony last week, Roehre, and couldn't make anything of it. It seemed so 'pasty', thin and colourless. I forget what it's intentions were but it was listening to the orchestral accompaniment of a rock piece without the components that explained the orchestral contribution. A real baffler for me.

Hackneyvi, this is what I wrote at the r3ok site re Causton's Chamber symphony:

My opinion (after listening to the work just once):
when a composer mentions works of a colleague as point of inspiration (in this case Nielsen 5, especially the recalcitrant snare drum), and further revers to "Michael Tippett’s essay Poets in a Barren Age, in which he characterises the modern age as technologically advanced but imaginatively deprived" and to "William Blake, who saw in the rise of mass production, mechanistic standardisation and conformity the devaluation of the individual work of art", I am afraid the work as presented last night (with the non-silence between the movements hardly, if at all, perceivable) didn't meet my expectations.

Contrary to what I actually expected (a certain "roughnes" and a bit of aggression imbedded in clichee-like passages e.g.), it is basically a lovely piece, irrrespective of the irregularity of the metres, and with mood "swings" which IMO are too subtle to be a "description" (if you like) of Causton's inspiration.
It has a strong high romantic cum neo-impressionistic feeling. Nothing wrong with that - but for me without a connection with Tippett, Blake or Nielsen. Structurally it might be a good piece, I think the material is developed and repeated quite convincingly.

Btw, Listening to and recalling the piece as "pure" music, I was struck by the similarities with a favourite of mine, Schreker's Kammersymphonie from 1916.

[hackneyvi]

I listened to the Causton but didn't hear anything

In the Saunders piece, I love the violin's queasy groans and the orchestra music's swarms and swim. The music has a Britten-ish clearness and it feels that every note has an individual importance. There are no priapic, 40 tone, chordal tuttis but endless, sensuous, vinous blends.

[hackneyvi]

Listening again tonight, I love the violin's flautish quivers in the opening and the use of contrasting growls which despite the deep register are each so clear, one sound after another emerging from, sliding out from under a progression of booms. Especially love the use of the bass drum and the rattling, bass piano notes.

It has a sort of purity despite the scale and range of the sound; it does seem Britten-ish in its elegance but with none of his tangs of nightmare. Something about it makes a whole of the orchestra, is one organ articulating/contributing rather than ranged fragments, competitive. I may be hearing it wrong but besides the sheer sounds, I admire a Mighty! unity in it.

I liked the wide and tall tapestry of this music very, very much indeed. It's simply lovely to listen to.

[Daniel]

Couldn't find a dedicated Rebecca Saunders thread so am putting this here...

.. have been listening to R.Saunders dichroic seventeen for accordion, electric guitar, piano, two percussionists, cello and two double-basses on youtube here, and very much enjoying it.
It seems a strange subterranean world where bubbles feel as if they go up, not down. And one where some shadowy, hard to visualise presence is constantly approaching one. When listening to this music, one could feel as if one is being experimented on in a probatory way (.. in a probing way I mean), and that the music takes the form of echoes coming back from one's unconscious (though I can accept there may possibly be other interpretations ... )

(One seems to have used a lot of 'ones' in one's previous paragraph, for which one is sorry, but one is a touch too tired to do anything about it.)

Anyway, when I first heard this, about 10 mins in there were a few seconds of a crackling sound very similar to that of stylus on vinyl (which it probably is), which starts leaking into the music for a minute or so, but then at about 12 mins it rather magically holds centre stage on its own. A moment of great poignancy I thought*, which is then immersed by other instruments joining in. Mesmerising as that sound was, I wished it had lasted for longer. Then, as the piece ended, in a rare moment of wish-fulfilment, there it was again in an extended appearance. It turned out to be the work's final word. Which was nice, as they say.

* For the little it's worth, I realised later that this sound, coming as it did after a moment of some tension, felt like an intensely peaceful one, like an internal switching off, an acceptance of death arriving perhaps. Anyway, very poignant in a Philip Larkin kind of way, Brian

As Rebecca Saunders hasn't yet convinced me of being an interesting composer [..]

I don't know if you still hold the same opinion, Roehre, but I will say I did find her an interesting composer immediately, but couldn't warm to her. Don't know why really (something felt arch perhaps?). But that's changed recently certainly with the piece mentioned above, and one or two other things.

[Daniel]

Sorry, I seem to be replying to myself, but meandering through music of the moment, R. Saunders is somebody I visit sporadically. Despite the last sentence of my post above, I do seem to be sth of a round hole to square peg for much of her music, but not so with Void, which I liked immediately.

Listening I had the sensation of being in a pitch black room surrounded by sounds of sth being constructed (which I suppose I was), every moment/episode endowed with an arresting, tense kind of importance, all propelling themselves forward with an inexorability I found irresistible. I certainly felt in the presence of a very fine piece of music.

Edit: added link.

http://5against4.com/2015/04/04/rebecca-saunders-void-world-premiere/