The other Benjamin... (no, NOT Floella!)

[Serial_Apologist]

Sat 30 May
10pm - New Music Show
Tom Service celebrates the British composer George Benjamin, who was 60 in January. The programme features new recordings of selected orchestral works, plus an in-depth interview with the composer in which he talks to Robert Worby about his life in music.

I accidentally typed "talks about Robert Worby" just then!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000jn65

60 - fancy! - it undoubtedly has to be a symptom of ageing that it only seems like yesterday that George Benjamin was being fêted as the new golden boy of British modern classical music.

[MrGongGong]

I accidentally typed "talks about Robert Worby" just then!
:

I could tell you some tales

[Serial_Apologist]

I could tell you some tales

Worby tide!

[MrGongGong]

Worby tide!

[Bryn]

I could tell you some tales

One of my favourites is how Cage laughingly dismissed Robert's re-running of the chance procedures to create a version of Fontana Mix. "Why bother? I already did all that." (paraphrased), as related by Mr. Worby himself.

[MrGongGong]

One of my favourites is how Cage laughingly dismissed Robert's re-running of the chance procedures to create a version of Fontana Mix. "Why bother? I already did all that." (paraphrased), as related by Mr. Worby himself.

"before they were famous" doing workshops in Scunthorpe Youth Clubs

[Serial_Apologist]

In his award speech tonight, George issued a stern but at the same time non-specific message about the current state of classical music in Britain, warning that unless things change the country will be reduced to the margins as in the 18th and 19th centuries! I feel too out of touch to open a fresh thread on the Ivors, not having heard of most of the nominees. The works we heard were pleasant enough, but I felt the award-earning qualities didn't make great demands on their composers.

[RichardB]

In his award speech tonight, George issued a stern but at the same time non-specific message about the current state of classical music in Britain, warning that unless things change the country will be reduced to the margins as in the 18th and 19th centuries! I feel too out of touch to open a fresh thread on the Ivors, not having heard of most of the nominees. The works we heard were pleasant enough, but I felt the award-earning qualities didn't make great demands on their composers.

Large numbers of composers don't even enter that competition. As John Cage says upthread, why bother? And as for George Benjamin, if he calls what he does "classical music" he's part of the problem.

[smittims]

For me the 'other ' Benjamin is (or was) Arthur. I'm afraid I've never found anything to like in George's music, though I have tried to give it a fair hearing. He certainly seems knowledgeable and skilful , but I don't hear any inspiration.

[Joseph K]

And as for George Benjamin, if he calls what he does "classical music" he's part of the problem.

Didn't Miles say 'Call It Anything'?

[RichardB]

Didn't Miles say 'Call It Anything'?

At least once... I call it "blimey is that a bass guitar Dave Holland is playing?"

What I mean is: I remember an interview with GB in the early 1990s or so when he said it was important to introduce young people to contemporary music "before they get the idea that Mozart and Brahms is all there is". I mean how many teenagers could actually think that, outside the privileged bubble that he has apparently spent his entire life in? "Classical music" has already been on the margins for some time, although I guess that might be difficult to see from the ivory tower.

[Master Jacques]

At least once... I call it "blimey is that a bass guitar Dave Holland is playing?"

What I mean is: I remember an interview with GB in the early 1990s or so when he said it was important to introduce young people to contemporary music "before they get the idea that Mozart and Brahms is all there is". I mean how many teenagers could actually think that, outside the privileged bubble that he has apparently spent his entire life in? "Classical music" has already been on the margins for some time, although I guess that might be difficult to see from the ivory tower.

There is truth in what GB said.

I remember a big London Sinfonietta (funding trashed 2022) project on Lutoslawski, done with London schoolkids, which introduced them all to WL's techniques and got them creating their own stuff along similar lines. Because they didn't have all that Beethoven/Brahms baggage, they could do it standing on their heads. It seemed natural to them. And come the concert, there were hundreds of them there to hear it - they clearly "got" the new WL piece, loved it and cheered it to the rafters.

I sometimes think of that moment, when I get depressed by the blanket brainwashing of Anglo-American commercial pop which destroys kids' options today, because the Sinfonietta project shows that it can be done - with willpower, professional expertise, and of course proper funding.

(And personally, because I didn't hear Beethoven when I was young - being soaked in British choral and symphonic music - I didn't start to "get" him, until I was about 30!)

[RichardB]

My point was that most teenagers have hardly even heard of Mozart and Brahms, let alone think that their music is all there is.

[Maclintick]

My point was that most teenagers have hardly even heard of Mozart and Brahms, let alone think that their music is all there is.

That's certainly true. Classical music has always been a niche preoccupation, but music in general, through the progressive (or rather regressive) slashing of budgets for schools, instrumental tuition & provision of instruments, and the peculiarly British (?) attitude that classical music in particular is the preserve of elitist "snobs", has been deliberately downgraded in state schools through deliberate government policies aimed at emphasising "core" skills, despite research indicating that participation in musical activities reaps great rewards in terms of concentration, coordination, teamwork, and is beneficial in many other areas of a child's education.

On the positive side, classical music is flourishing in the Far East -- 40 million Chinese kids learning the piano in emulation of Lang-Lang, Yuja etc

[Master Jacques]

My point was that most teenagers have hardly even heard of Mozart and Brahms, let alone think that their music is all there is.

My point too, with the London Sinfonietta / Lutoslawski project. Because they'd never heard of Brahms, these children were clean sheets to work with, without the ingrained prejudices of those people who think it's all about these long dead composers, and not about what's happening in art music here and now. Getting "classically trained" musicians to play them the wretched stuff they're bombarded with every day - which is ACE's idea of "inclusivity" - is condescending and self-defeating.