Scratch Orchestra at 50

[Bryn]

A new F***book 'page' has been launched with information regarding this year's 50th anniversary of the founding of the Scratch Orchestra:

https://www.facebook.com/ScratchOrchestraat50/

It has led me to finally sign up to the damned thing (FB, that is).

[Dave2002]

A new F***book 'page' has been launched with information regarding this year's 50th anniversary of the founding of the Scratch Orchestra:

https://www.facebook.com/ScratchOrchestraat50/

It has led me to finally sign up to the damned thing (FB, that is).

But why?

Unless you want to contribute there's no need to join, surely. I hope I never feel "compelled" to join - the way that website works seems very wrong to me.

[Bryn]

But why?

Unless you want to contribute there's no need to join, surely. I hope I never feel "compelled" to join - the way that website works seems very wrong to me.

If you are referring to the specific Scratch Orchestra at 50 'site', rather than FB as a whole, it's in its very early stages of construction. Its author is about to go off on holiday, so it's a matter of wait and see. I will also need t to contribute since I am one of a trio making preparations for the events. As to FB, I remain wary of it and will possibly withdraw after the anniversary related events have finished.

[MrGongGong]

But why?

Unless you want to contribute there's no need to join, surely. I hope I never feel "compelled" to join - the way that website works seems very wrong to me.

So you can find out stuff, contribute and join in with things with people who share your interests.

What's the problem ?

Thanks for this Bryn, will be following it with interest

[Richard Barrett]

So you can find out stuff, contribute and join in with things with people who share your interests.

You can also indiscriminately post personal stuff about yourself and then complain when it gets used by FB for advertising, and then you can post a legally invalid disclaimer that supposedly prevents FB from using the information that you gave them permission to use by signing up, etc...

[MrGongGong]

You can also indiscriminately post personal stuff about yourself and then complain when it gets used by FB for advertising, and then you can post a legally invalid disclaimer that supposedly prevents FB from using the information that you gave them permission to use by signing up, etc...

Of course

You can also express surprise when you realise that FB is in the business of data mining
and that the chap in the Vatican is a Catholic and bears................

You can also join in the moral panic by railing against social media (on social media) and how it's going to destroy the minds of the young.

[Dave2002]

You can also indiscriminately post personal stuff about yourself and then complain when it gets used by FB for advertising, and then you can post a legally invalid disclaimer that supposedly prevents FB from using the information that you gave them permission to use by signing up, etc...

Not to mention the Cambridge Analytics stuff, and the even more worrying stuff about Cummings and You Know Who ....

[Pulcinella]

Of course

You can also express surprise when you realise that FB is in the business of data mining
and that the chap in the Vatican is a Catholic and bears................

You can also join in the moral panic by railing against social media (on social media) and how it's going to destroy the minds of the young.

I think the parents of some children who have self-harmed or, even worse, committed suicide, might feel a bit differently about the impact of certain social media on their children. I fear it has already destroyed their lives.

[MrGongGong]

I think the parents of some children who have self-harmed or, even worse, committed suicide, might feel a bit differently about the impact of certain social media on their children. I fear it has already destroyed their lives.

It's not social media that is the problem though, it's HOW some people use it

Moral panics have a long history
which is NOT to say that there are aren't some people who have problems which aren't helped by the way that they use some technologies


(You have to be over 13, for example, to have a FB account)

[Dave2002]

It's not social media that is the problem though, it's HOW some people use it

Moral panics have a long history
which is NOT to say that there are aren't some people who have problems which aren't helped by the way that they use some technologies


(You have to be over 13, for example, to have a FB account)

This is essentially the same kind of argument used by one DT and his supporters and members of the NRA to justify gun possession. It's not guns that kill people, but people that kill people. Plus a latest twist, mental health issues.

[MrGongGong]

This is essentially the same kind of argument used by one DT and his supporters and members of the NRA to justify gun possession. It's not guns that kill people, but people that kill people. Plus a latest twist, mental health issues.

No it's not at all... if you can't tell the difference between the internet and an assault rifle then you might have a bit of a problem

Bryn's post perfectly demonstrates how useful and interesting social media can be
This film shows how useful and skillful knives can be

http://www.magpictures.com/jirodreamsofsushi/

neither are inciting anyone to cause any harm to anyone else
Some people DO (not mentioning any names)

For many of the vulnerable youngsters that I often work with social media is a very positive way of them connecting with communities of interest (just like this forum)

[Dave2002]

No it's not at all... if you can't tell the difference between the internet and an assault rifle then you might have a bit of a problem

In the abstract it's the same - putting all the blame/responsibility on the user/s.

I am actually ambivalent re FB, but so far have avoided it, and intend to continue to do so. I am aware of some of the benefits which you are pointing out, but I have also seen real problems arise with certain forms of internet use.

If you think about it, even this site is a social media site, but it is very low level, hopefully benign.

Like you I have worked with fairly young people, and have seen how they use FB and the internet. I have been using email since the mid 1970s and the internet in various forms from the end of the 1970s onwards. In the early days I thought it was all benign. By the millenium I was telling people of the consequences of what would happen if they put certain material up on the internet on various websites, and while I encouraged them to explore and develop sites, I did so with very strong "health" warnings. Over the years since I have had people come begging me to tell them how to take material they posted down, and my response is usually that I can only take down what I have access to (which probably was taken down long ago) - anything else I have no control over.

FB seems to have some very specific problems which can really mess with some people's lives if things go wrong.

[MrGongGong]

I'm not denying any of that Dave
Just wary of the moral panic that seems to go along with these things

Nothing is 100% benign
but i'm more wary of those who seem to want to impose more rules rather than develop a sense of awareness in those who use things that can be harmful (which includes cars, beer, the internet, power tools etc etc)

Like you I avoided FB for many years BUT then started working with groups of people who used it as the primary means of communication and collaboration. I have actually found it a fantastic way of collaborating and communicating, i'm not really interested in cats or documenting every moment of my life BUT find it invaluable for keeping in touch and sharing things.
Yes, it's a data mining company, that's the deal.

[Dave2002]

A fairly common use of FB (apparently) is for job recruitment. It seems that some employers are now (routinely?) scanning FB pages looking for information about prospective employees, or indeed their own employees, or anyone they may have to deal with. "Obviously" nowadays prospective employees are often wise to this, though they might try to remove older material which they would not wish to be seen. OTOH, the employers may look for historical data - for example see https://itstillworks.com/cached-vers...ook-23572.html

The easiest way to avoid this kind of problem is not to engage with web sites, or FB at all. One problem with some social media sites (FB may have now changed policies to reduce the risk, but ...) is that other people may be able to put up damaging material on personal sites, and this can blight people's lives for a long time. Sometimes this happens "for a joke", or "innnocently", but that's no real comfort to the person affected.

[Bryn]

Getting back on topic, I have now had confirmation that Goldsmith Press intend to publish a reprint of "Scratch Music" (edited by Cornelius Cardew) next May (which will see the 51st Anniversary of "A Scratch Orchestra: Draft Constitution" in the 'June' 1969 edition of Musical Times*). This will be a limited edition of 400 copies, in paperback format. The same publisher also released David Toop's "Inflamed Invisible" yesterday.

* this can be found reproduced on pages 20 and 21 of "25 Years from Scratch"