LCMF 2; H&N, Sat 2/2/10; 10:15pm

[Richard Barrett]

Voices?

This is the way I see it. When that centuries-old technology was new, it didn’t supplant the even older musical resource of voices, but created a new situation (I’m thinking of the 17th century) where the way composers conceived vocalism was now conditioned, influenced, inspired, whatever, by the newly liberated instrumental resources and their music. Go forward a few centuries and it’s possible to imagine a similar thing happening with the relationship between the biological (vocal) domain, the mechanical (instrumental) domain and the new electronic/digital domain. I’m not sure this makes orchestras (I mean orchestras recognisable in their makeup as emerging from the orchestral tradition, not the “so-called” orchestras of MrGG’s examples) irrelevant or anachronistic, any more than 17th century instrumental practice made a cappella singing irrelevant. The problem with the LCMF “manifesto” is that it’s taking something old and trying by verbal means to make it look like something new. I don’t think the traditional orchestra will have a significant role to play in 21st century musical evolution, not because it’s “BROKEN” - it may look “BROKEN” precisely because it’s no longer a medium for composers expanding the horizons of musical possibility, as it arguably was until the middle of the last century. There’s no need to throw away violins, cellos, flutes, trumpets etc. but to rethink what they do in the context of the new technology. On the other hand it’s no longer necessary to have 80 musicians (or even one!) in order to project the richness, depth and complexity of orchestral sound.

[Quarky]

Voices?

This thread is vastly more interesting than the H&N programme itself, which for me was a huge disappointment.

While in agreement with RB and Boilk's discussion, I guess I'm a traditionalist on "Voices". All the Western Music I have heard going back to the year dot employs the voice as a basically tonal instrument - although of course used in atonal contexts. But Sofia Jernberg / Prelude resembled my lady friend in a bad mood- I had to skip that for self-protection!

[MrGongGong]

This is the way I see it. When that centuries-old technology was new, it didn’t supplant the even older musical resource of voices, but created a new situation (I’m thinking of the 17th century) where the way composers conceived vocalism was now conditioned, influenced, inspired, whatever, by the newly liberated instrumental resources and their music. Go forward a few centuries and it’s possible to imagine a similar thing happening with the relationship between the biological (vocal) domain, the mechanical (instrumental) domain and the new electronic/digital domain. I’m not sure this makes orchestras (I mean orchestras recognisable in their makeup as emerging from the orchestral tradition, not the “so-called” orchestras of MrGG’s examples) irrelevant or anachronistic, any more than 17th century instrumental practice made a cappella singing irrelevant. The problem with the LCMF “manifesto” is that it’s taking something old and trying by verbal means to make it look like something new. I don’t think the traditional orchestra will have a significant role to play in 21st century musical evolution, not because it’s “BROKEN” - it may look “BROKEN” precisely because it’s no longer a medium for composers expanding the horizons of musical possibility, as it arguably was until the middle of the last century. There’s no need to throw away violins, cellos, flutes, trumpets etc. but to rethink what they do in the context of the new technology. On the other hand it’s no longer necessary to have 80 musicians (or even one!) in order to project the richness, depth and complexity of orchestral sound.

There was an interesting "moment" a few years ago when the EOB (Eastern Orchestral Board, which became the organisation "Orchestras Live") changed their definitions so that they would support ensembles that were more diverse. Previous to that (and I think it was probably about 10 years ago?) an "orchestra" had to be capable of playing a Haydn symphony WITHOUT adapting the parts.
Not all "orchestras" come from the "orchestral" tradition (Andy McCluskey didn't play in our school orchestra in the 1970's but would probably be allowed in now as long as he didn't do the dance ) much as all improvisation doesn't come from "Jazz". I do think the "O" word has become a catch-all because folks have an idea of what it means.

In my experience, some of the most interesting music can come from the most traditional ensembles, the OAE, for example.