Chinese and Korean look and sound the same to Radio 3, it seems!

[Bryn]

"John Shea presents a programme of Chinese music by Qigang Chen, Unsuk Chin and Zhao Jiping with the Luxembourg Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Muhai Tang."

from http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06th28k

Difficult to believe they could be so crass, or is it?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

"John Shea presents a programme of Chinese music by Qigang Chen, Unsuk Chin and Zhao Jiping with the Luxembourg Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Muhai Tang."
from http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06th28k
Difficult to believe they could be so crass, or is it?

I hope, really I do, that the gaffe originates in whoever is asked to type up the website in a hurry, rather than from R3 itself.


I said "I hope" ...

[Bryn]

I hope, really I do, that the gaffe originates in whoever is asked to type up the website in a hurry, rather than from R3 itself.


I said "I hope" ...

I do feel fairly confident that JS's recorded presentation will not compound the error. Indeed, I rather expect him to make apologies on behalf of gaffe-maker.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

75% of music played is by Chinese composers

Exactly the point, pumpkin. Glad to see that you are saddened by this potentially offensive blunder, too.

[Bryn]

75% of music played is by Chinese composers

Closer to 65% actually, but that's not the point. Unsuk Chin is probably the best known in Europe of the three composers whose works are represented, and she was born in Seoul, though resident in Berlin for the second half of her life to date.

[Bryn]

I know that. Pecisely 75% actually - since 3 of 4 works are by Chinese composers, the headline iis hardly misleading or untruthful

No, approximately 65%. Look at the timings.

[french frank]

I know that. Pecisely 75% actually - since 3 of 4 works are by Chinese composers, the headline iis hardly misleading or untruthful

'a programme of Chinese music by Qigang Chen, Unsuk Chin and Zhao Jiping'? - that, in most people's book, means that Qigang Chen, Unsuk Chin and Zhao Jiping all compose Chinese music. Whereas, as we all know:

"Unsuk Chin does not regard her music as belonging to any specific culture. Chin names Béla Bartók, Igor Stravinsky, Claude Debussy, Anton Webern, Iannis Xenakis, and György Ligeti,among others, as 20th-century composers of special importance for her. Chin regards her working experience with Electronic music and her preoccupation with Balinese Gamelan as influential for her work. In her orchestral work Miroirs des temps Chin has also used compositional concepts of Medieval composers, such as Machaut and Ciconia, by employing and evolving techniques such as musical palindromes and crab canons."

Qigang Chen, on the other hand, is French and studied with Messiaen. Zhao studied in China.

[makropulos]

"Qigang Chen, on the other hand, is French and studied with Messiaen."

Yes indeed - a French citizen since the early 90s. I remember Yvonne Loriod telling me that Chen was one of Messiaen's favourite pupils among all those he taught over 50+ years.

[jean]

On the (yet) other hand:

Qigang Chen

Qigang Chen is a leading Chinese composer, who shares his working life between Beijing and Paris * works show marked influence of traditional Chinese folk music, blended into idiomatic orchestral writing in an entirely organic way * exquisite orchestral textures and dramatic gestures, best represented in the celebrated work Iris dévoilée * particular affinity with writing for the voice; has worked with vocalists from various traditions * music for the ballet Raise the Red Lantern, directed by the auteur Zhang Yi-Mou and toured internationally by the National Ballet of China * Director of Music for Beijing Olympics Opening Ceremony * major interpreters include Yo-Yo Ma, Edo de Waart, Roger Norrington, Long Yu...

...Looking ahead: further performances of new orchestral work Luan Tan by Shanghai Symphony Orchestra (12 Dec); the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra (May 2016) and Radio France...

I don't know much about his music yet but I have a ticket for the Liverpool concert (UK Premiere of the work, a commission from the Liverpool Philharmonic, Hong Kong Philharmonic Orchestra and Radio France). I'll have a better idea of the nationality of the music after that.

.

[Beef Oven!]

Instead of all our chattering, why don't we ask Qigang Chen what nationality he perceives himself as, and supplement that question with one about what nationality he thinks his music is? Or isn't his view as important as our white European middle class sensibilities?

[jean]

I was rather hoping that my post would help fulfil that function, Beefy, since I assume he would have approved the text I copy.

The original gaffe that prompted this thread was a confusion in the Western mind between Chinese and Korean. But in correcting that, we find ourselves absorbing into a totally European identity a composer who doesn't seem to think of himself in that way.

Truly, the ways of political correctness are strange.

[Beef Oven!]

I was rather hoping that my post would help fulfil that function, Beefy, since I assume he would have approved the text.

Indeed, but I felt the need to put it more directly.

[Beef Oven!]

I was rather hoping that my post would help fulfil that function, Beefy, since I assume he would have approved the text I copy.

The original gaffe that prompted this thread was a confusion in the Western mind between Chinese and Korean. But in correcting that, we find ourselves absorbing into a totally European identity a composer who doesn't seem to think of himself in that way.

Truly, the ways of political correctness are strange.

But Bryn's point concerning Unsuk Chin is spot on, whichever way we look at it (well at least when looking at her nationality and the music she composes!).

[jean]

I do feel fairly confident that JS's recorded presentation will not compound the error...

His introduction refers to all the Christmas music we've been hearing on TTN, and goes on to speculate that listeners may be asking themselves Yes but where can I celebrate the Chinese New Year in a concert recorded in Luxembourg?

Will that do?

Probably not, as the Chinese New Year isn't until February.

[Bryn]

His introduction refers to all the Christmas music we've been hearing on TTN, and goes on to speculate that listeners may be asking themselves Yes but where can I celebrate the Chinese New Year in a concert recorded in Luxembourg?

Will that do?

Probably not, as the Chinese New Year isn't until February.

It was even later in February last year. Do we know which year the Luxembourg concert was recorded? I was in the land of nod during last night's broadcast, but will catch up via the iPlayer.

I have now checked with the iPlayer. JS made a point of stressing the word "Korean" when introducing Unsuk Chin's work, and referred to Qigang Chen's French citizenship. He also mentioned that the concert was given during the Chinese New Year of 2015.