Arditti Quartet at 40 - Episode 2

[Quarky]

I do take your point but the constituency of this place is very small and, with respect, it doesn't exactly burst with diverse opinions.

A problem with forming an opinion on"new" music is that of separating the wheat from the chaff, and identifying that which is worth listening to and that which is just "time wasters". I understand for example that the BBC new commissions for the Proms are mostly regarded as time wasters. In fact I sometimes whether Sydney Grew may have a point.

For someone such as myself attempting to come to terms with current compositions ( and I do agree with Eliot Carter that that may be the only music worth listening to), there is the first hurdle to cross of being familiar enough with the genre, that no matter what the composer may throw at you, it is possible to stay with the composition, and not lose the continuity/ contiguity of the piece. But the more difficult hurdle is to say OK I hear what the composer is saying, but for reasons to be identified, unfortunately on this particular occasion, the composer failed to make his case. It takes a brave man to go against the view of the cognoscenti.

But, on an initial hearing, I quite liked the Rihm.

[Blotto]

Well, if you do manage to find a larger and more representative party going on somewhere, perhaps you'd let us know?!

Indeed, I don't expect to find a larger audience somewhere else and that seems salient - to the remarks being made in the Birtwistle thread about considering the audience, and to the issue of new music being played on BBC4.

There is a huge constituency of people with opinions about new music but that constituency's opinion is that they don't care about it or find it positively objectionable. Meanwhile, the chosen few, like blustering Edwardian parents or like nursemaids, declare, "Well, it never did me any harm" and "You'll take it because it's good for you."

No, I don't expect to find a large body of people elsewhere who are interested in new music.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Ooh, no - it's more that the constituency's attitude is akin to that of the Victorian view of sex. Unfortunately neccesary, but something that shouldn't be enjoyed and never spoken of in polite society.

Well - I enjoy it! There, I've said it - AND (reprobate that I am) I'm GLAD I've said it!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

No. I said "reprobate"!

[Richard Barrett]

It takes a brave man to go against the view of the cognoscenti.

But, on an initial hearing, I quite liked the Rihm.

It's all opinion though! One person's wheat is another's chaff. I do feel that most BBC Proms commissions in recent years have been quite underwhelming, partly because the composers chosen seem to occupy such a limited and middle-of-the-road range of stylistic positions, and especially in view of the fact that I always used to think of Roger Wright as someone with wider and less conventional sympathies than he's shown in this matter. Well, he would say that, some might be thinking, his work has never been performed at the Proms, to which I say preemptively: that would be nice of course, apart from the RAH acoustic, but it would be churlish of me to feel hard done by with regard to commissions in general and the BBC in particular.

Anyway, enough of that. I'm feeling a bit ashamed of myself at the moment for having made so many negative comments here about Adams, Rihm, Hosokawa, Goehr and whoever else in recent days, I hope they don't seem grumpy and bitter or anything like that because I'd much rather be going on about musicians whose work I have a strong enthusiasm for, like for example Xenakis!

So, while I'm here, here's a link to a very exciting performance of that composer's Synaphai for piano and orchestra, with the wonderful Hiroaki Ooi as soloist. (He has recorded this work on CD, with Arturo Tamayo conducting the Luxembourg Philharmonic, but he tells me he much prefers this performance, and I agree.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pBMxp8EJFA

[Blotto]

Ooh, no - it's more that the constituency's attitude is akin to that of the Victorian view of sex. Unfortunately neccesary, but something that shouldn't be enjoyed and never spoken of in polite society.

Well - I enjoy it! There, I've said it - AND (reprobate that I am) I'm GLAD I've said it!

There is an audience for new music, in fact, I suppose, there are many audiences. But the large constituency you speak of isn't afraid of new music. Listen to their reactions. The are bored and oppressed by it. It doesn't resemble sex, it resembles rules.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But, Blotto - why should I "listen to their reactions"? Does any other audience enthusiastic for a particular type of Music feel any such obligation? If they are "bored and oppressed" then that's their privilege and their problem. If they express an interest in my enthusiasm for something they don't like, that's another matter - but the blazes with anyone who thinks this "resembles rules":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCaOfEax8MM

EDIT: or the Xenakis in RB's link!

[Richard Barrett]

the large constituency you speak of isn't afraid of new music. Listen to their reactions. The are bored and oppressed by it.

But this constituency, whatever their feelings, is a subset of the constituency of "classical music listeners". Outside that already somewhat narrow (and, it must be said, proverbially narrow-minded) category of people are many others whose reaction to new music, broadly defined, is neither fearful or bored but curious and enthusiastic. Such at least is my experience.

[Richard Barrett]

No. I said "reprobate"!

Frankie Howerd lives!

[Richard Barrett]

Well, I seem to have bored this thread into submission. I did want to say though that today I've been listening to the Arditti recording of the two quartets by Roberto Gerhard (a recentish CD on the Aeon label) and I would have to say that they play it with the precision, intensity and confidence you'd expect (but not often get) in well-worn repertoire. Gerhard's Second Quartet is one of the most colourful and expressive and original "new" works in the genre I've heard for a long time.

[Pianoman]

I couldn't agree more ! I'm a real fan of Gerhard but I admit to not knowing the String Quartets at all, so their discovery on Spotify prompted me to immediately buy the Arditti disc. The First is interesting in a 'homage to Schoenberg' sort of way, but the the Second is a real find and wonderfully played.

[kea]

Well, I seem to have bored this thread into submission. I did want to say though that today I've been listening to the Arditti recording of the two quartets by Roberto Gerhard (a recentish CD on the Aeon label) and I would have to say that they play it with the precision, intensity and confidence you'd expect (but not often get) in well-worn repertoire. Gerhard's Second Quartet is one of the most colourful and expressive and original "new" works in the genre I've heard for a long time.

That's a lovely recording indeed—I wish there were more people interested in playing Gerhard. If only we could somehow get the Arditti Quartet to record his 3rd symphony... >.> He seems to have fallen between the cracks a little; not avant-garde enough for HCMF, too difficult for the RAH.

I spent quite some time earlier this year listening to another Aeon recording, the Ardittis' survey of the Ferneyhough quartets and trios, which was also released for their 40th. Both music and playing were astonishing; it doesn't seem like such things should be possible. I don't know how their earlier recordings compare as they're largely inaccessible now—it's probably too much to hope that for their 50th Naïve will re-release all of the Ardittis' Montaigne recordings in a budget price box set... —but I imagine the years have softened the difficulties of the works somewhat.

[Richard Barrett]

I would love to hear a good performance of Gerhard's Third Symphony. The only recording I know which gives the electronic materials enough presence, as opposed to apologetically putting them in the background is the one conducted by Victor Pablo Pérez, but unfortunately it also needs a virtuoso orchestra which he doesn't really have. Most of his work has been recorded at least once by now, I would think. Another recent acquisition of mine was a recording of his music for mixed chamber ensembles (Libra, Gemini, Leo, Concerto for 8) by Collegium Novum Zürich, which I recommend highly.

I have the latest Arditti Ferneyhough set as well but haven't had the opportunity to listen to it properly yet. Another of my favourite Arditti recordings is the one of Kagel's (at the time) three string quartets plus a little piece called Pan which adds a piccolo.

[Quarky]

.......... I'd much rather be going on about musicians whose work I have a strong enthusiasm for, like for example Xenakis!

So, while I'm here, here's a link to a very exciting performance of that composer's Synaphai for piano and orchestra, with the wonderful Hiroaki Ooi as soloist. (He has recorded this work on CD, with Arturo Tamayo conducting the Luxembourg Philharmonic, but he tells me he much prefers this performance, and I agree.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pBMxp8EJFA

The Arditti Quartet has now been lost on iPlayer - thought we had 30 days now - but caught enough of Tetra- the rest has been lost to posterity.

Xenakiss' background and methods of composition could hardly be more different than Birtwistles', but perhaps they have a similarity in that, in the end result, what matters is their breadth of imagination, and ability to conjure up totally unusual sound combinations.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The Arditti Quartet has now been lost on iPlayer - thought we had 30 days now - but caught enough of Tetra- the rest has been lost to posterity.

Only for the Proms (and, I think, only the evening concerts) - so CFM standards like Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky can be yours for a month. James Clarke - blink, and you've missed it forever. Unless you've "illegally" downloaded it.