Arditti Quartet at 40 - Episode 2

[Quarky]

I'm surprised indeed that there have been no responses in this thread, givewn the long history and importance of the Arditti Quartet and the immense contribution that they have made over four decades to contemporary music, mainly for string quartet.
Surely some members here heard the broadcast and have something to say about it?

Following on from Amateur 51's post, I'm glad this thread is so far escaping the fate of many other threads on the H&N board , namely dying an early death through lack of interest.

The reason for this imv, is that there is a handful of very notable contributors such as ahinton, composers etc, who are light years ahead in musical appreciation, of the motley crew making up the rest of H&N's listener base. Unless the thread attracts the attention of any of these contributors, then the thread is going to lack any sound analysis of the music in question.

Further I understand there is a view that the music broadcast on H&N is going down in quality - even "dumbed down"? So may be H&N is being deleted from the play list of our notable contributors?

[Blotto]

Further I understand there is a view that the music broadcast on H&N is going down in quality - even "dumbed down"?

Take a look at the list of episodes which go back a long way, it would be bloody difficult to back that assertion, I think.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006tnsx/episodes/guide

Look at the playlists - I'm sure there's plenty of music that isn't liked but little or nothing that's 'dumb'. If anything, the more I look at the last 12 months' programmes and the more I realise I've missed. It's an impressive and creditable list of performances.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Well, I've now listened to the programme - my usual admiration and astonishment at the performances, but (and I shall "listen again" again to test this) I found my interest in the pieces themselves gradually waning after the Xenakis.


Well, you did ask!

[Richard Barrett]

Well, I've now listened to the programme - my usual admiration and astonishment at the performances, but (and I shall "listen again" again to test this) I found my interest in the pieces themselves gradually waning after the Xenakis.

Me too. I generally find it hard to concentrate on Rihm or Dusapin, and I really don't get what anyone sees in Hosokawa, everything I've heard of his is either derivative or insipid or both.

[Roehre]

Me too. I generally find it hard to concentrate on Rihm or Dusapin, and I really don't get what anyone sees in Hosokawa, everything I've heard of his is either derivative or insipid or both.

That's why I haven't (yet?) listened to it. I am quite sure it would be a waste of time

[Richard Barrett]

Further I understand there is a view that the music broadcast on H&N is going down in quality - even "dumbed down"?

I hadn't noticed, I have the impression it's the same sort of mixture as ever, speaking of which things have never been the same since Mixing It was removed from the schedules - H&N isn't enough on its own.

[Richard Barrett]

And, while I'm here:

I'm glad this thread is so far escaping the fate of many other threads on the H&N board , namely dying an early death through lack of interest.

I think the problem with threads on this board is rather that the number of people contributing to them is usually quite small, so that there isn't the diversity of opinion (excluding the "it's all rubbish" crew who pop in now and again) that would ignite a more extended discussion. I don't think it's so much to do with some people being "light years ahead" - there are many different levels on which this music (like any music) can be discussed, and those of us with a personal interest in the communicability and directness of music some might regard as "difficult" ought to be able to say something meaningful about it in terms that an interested non-specialist can take on. Maybe the answer is to have fewer but longer threads.

[kea]

I remember that recording of op.133, which struck me as very powerful and valuable, if not so idiomatic; however, as it happens I've been listening a bit obasessively to that Hagen recording of op.130/133 in recent weeks and as far as I'm concerned no recorded performance I know has come closer to the energy and complexity of this work. I should point out, though, that the (also excellent but not quite on the same level) LaSalle recording of op.130 uses op.133 as the finale as well.

Exactly (although I don't know the LaSalle recording)—I don't like calling a recording "revelatory", it's overused, but the Hagens' performance there makes all others sound "wrong" to me, particularly if they use the substitute finale. Their performance of Schubert's G major quartet is of similar quality I think. They're also quite involved with new music I think, if not to an Arditti-like extent (I believe they recently premiered a quartet by Haas)... as were the LaSalles in their day... actually it seems that some of the most powerful performances of "old music" are from ensembles/individuals that have played and thoroughly absorbed a lot of "new music".

To me the Arditti Quartet always sound a bit like David tackling Goliath. Wonderfully impressive though it is, I sometimes long for the slightly less supercharged playing of say the Smith quartet.

I think the sense of strain is sometimes important, and adds something to the performances of e.g. Ferneyhough or Dillon, where extreme difficulty is as much subject as byproduct of the music.

(Of course there are also several different Arditti Quartets, with slightly different performance styles. I'm not completely sure but I think my favourite iteration is the Garth Knox one.)

Well, I've now listened to the programme - my usual admiration and astonishment at the performances, but (and I shall "listen again" again to test this) I found my interest in the pieces themselves gradually waning after the Xenakis.

My impression as well.

There's a rather good CD juxtaposing accordion music by Hosokawa with gagaku music for shō—it must be said that the gagaku pieces are the more impressive of the two, but freed of its "Ardittiisms" Hosokawa's contribution manages to ring true for the most part, and doesn't seem like a conscious attempt to "Europeanise" as much of his other stuff appears to.

[Blotto]

Well, I've now listened to the programme - my usual admiration and astonishment at the performances, but (and I shall "listen again" again to test this) I found my interest in the pieces themselves gradually waning after the Xenakis.

I felt similarly but in consequence of the schedule, too. I don't know the Xenakis well but it's a striking piece and was played tightly and powerfully so how do you follow it? The Dusapin generally survived it for me. The Rihm passed by unnoticed and I didn't have the patience for the Hosakawa. It left me cold when it was on the Barbi and started to annoy me immediately here.

I think, for me, these edited compilation programmes would be better if listened to across the week. In a hall, there's time and there's a process which separates and distinguishes the pieces in a programme, even if they're disparate. But this was a sort of highlights show with both time and process missing and replaced by narration, a kind of talking concert book.

I really liked the new Proms online feature of putting separate links up for the individual pieces of a concert (with the option for the whole show, too) and hope it will become routine. I do like Ivan Hewitt's presentation; it's amiable, knowledgable and clear, if a little cool, perhaps. But to have the option of isolating the music in compressed programmes like this would be helpful.

[ahinton]

Me too. I generally find it hard to concentrate on Rihm or Dusapin, and I really don't get what anyone sees in Hosokawa, everything I've heard of his is either derivative or insipid or both.

It's interesing that several of have come away from the programme with similar impressions, that of "downhill all the way after the Xenakis" being the most notable and one that I too share (I refer here to the music, not the performances, in so saying). I thought initially that the Dusapin might prove to be an effective foil for it but in fact I soon began to find it rather crabbed and repetitive and ultimately rather tiresome, as if the composer had run out of ideas too soon but failed to stop. Rihm's written more engaging music that the pieces on offer thereafter and the Hosokawa just did nothing for me. I also found the performance of the Xenakis the best of all.

[Serial_Apologist]

Well, I've now listened to the programme - my usual admiration and astonishment at the performances, but (and I shall "listen again" again to test this) I found my interest in the pieces themselves gradually waning after the Xenakis.


Well, you did ask!

And I thought it was just me!!!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Well - I've listened again, this time without the Xenakis colouring my reception of the other works. My initial response was confirmed - the pieces didn't improve for me when taken on their own terms. The first third of the Dusapin was okay, but thereafter it meandered on rather a lot, and not particularly interesting meandering. I didn't feel that it went anywhere, and not very riveting not going anywhere, either. The Rihm filled in ten minutes with a scattering of ideas that seemed familiar from other works, and much the same could be said of the Hosokawa, except that this was even more anonymous and lasted twice as long.

[Serial_Apologist]

and not very riveting not going anywhere, either.

[Blotto]

It's interesing that several of have come away from the programme with similar impressions

I do take your point but the constituency of this place is very small and, with respect, it doesn't exactly burst with diverse opinions.

[Serial_Apologist]

I do take your point but the constituency of this place is very small and, with respect, it doesn't exactly burst with diverse opinions.

Well, if you do manage to find a larger and more representative party going on somewhere, perhaps you'd let us know?!