Organ music on Record Review

[ardcarp]

Andrew McGregor talked with Andrew Mellor on Record Review today. They began by discussing two pieces from Bach's Clavier-Ubung played by James Johnstone on the 18thC Wagner organ at Nidarosdomen in Trondheim, Norway. I thought these sounded wonderful. I was a little surprised when AMcG said the Chorale Prelude on Wir Glauben was 'maybe a little esoteric to begin this CD'. Really? He may have forgotten, but in days gone by this was a hugely popular piece and known as 'The Giant Fugue' on account of the bold striding steps in the pedal part. The whole piece is constructed from bits of Luther's hymn Wir glauben all' an einen Gott though the complete tune is not used as a cantus firmus as in many other choral preludes. The 'fugue' bit applies to the upper three parts, but the solid bass was no doubt Bach's way of describing Luther's expression of steadfast faith. That bass part is one which choristers always liked to hum under their breath at each appearance (rather as they do in Widor's Toccata).

I think I am writing this post because I feel we should not regard staples of the organ repertoire as 'esoteric'. In my circle of musical friends as a child, many of those Bach pieces with 'names' e.g. The Dorian, The St Anne, The 'Great' G minor ...with its 'Oh Ebeneezer Prout you are a silly trout' fugue subject.....were much loved as of course was the [now dubiously attributed?] Toccata and Fugue in D minor.

Maybe they need to be Classic FM-ed a bit to restore their popularity and sense of excitement?

[DracoM]

The interesting thing was that he actually went into organ action, pipes, design i.e. real bit of organ insider stuff.

[mw963]

The mnemonic that sprang to my mind when I read ardcarp's post was "Oh Ebeneezer Prout, he had a little gout", but I've never found any information on how such a witty little ditty might proceed in the lines that follow.

Can anyone help - is there more...?

Absolutely agree that the organ has become sidelined and marginalised, partly by the C of E, but also more egregiously by certain cathedrals; I don't know if it's still the case, but about 20 years ago Exeter banned the use of the organ for practice during "tourist hours" as it disturbed the guides' remarks, thus at a stroke removing the only opportunity many folk would have to hear an organ at all - I don't know if the ban was eventually rethought, but well done Exeter for an idiotic own goal, it was just after you appointed an Administrator for the first time and for some of us the rot started there and then, but I digress).....

In any case, you are right to point out ardcarp that many organ works were "common currency" for a good percentage of the population, and many LP record collections of the sixties and seventies would include at least one LP of "Organ Favourites from...." even if the owner wasn't a particular fan.

Radio 3 hasn't helped, but I think we've all already lamented the complete removal of "proper" organ programmes, and as I haven't been bothered with Radio 3 since Kenyon's vandalism of 1992 (apart from CE) there's no point in my moaning about it. I haven't heard the Choir and Organ slot recently introduced, but judging by some comments nearby on this forum I haven't missed much!

There, a good Sunday morning rant...... Sorry folks!

[Vox Humana]

The mnemonic that sprang to my mind when I read ardcarp's post was "Oh Ebeneezer Prout, he had a little gout", but I've never found any information on how such a witty little ditty might proceed in the lines that follow.

Can anyone help - is there more...?

The version I know (which I think I may have acquired as a teenager from Roy Massey) is "O Ebenezer Prout, you are a funny man, always writing fugues as quickly as you can."

[mw963]

Ah - thank you. It really deserves to have more added to it by someone with the right "wit" for the job.

[mercia]

I thought it was "O Ebenezer Prout you're looking very stout"

The internet tells me that Prout himself put words to all the fugues of the '48'.

[mopsus]

The version I know is 'Oh Ebenezer Prout, you are a silly man, you ought to play Bach fugues as fast as you can'.

I can confirm the ban on practising in Exeter Cathedral while guided tours were going on. In 2006 our visiting choir was told not to rehearse in the cathedral for this reason in the rather limited time before Sunday Evensong. Our conductor ignored the prohibition and no one stopped us. I don't recall a similar ban when I returned in 2012. I don't think I've come across any such prohibition in other cathedrals, but I'm not an organist. I know some ask practising organists to use quieter stops at certain times.

[orson]

The one I heard was "O my life is a bore, my granny was a whore...."

[BBMmk2]

I'll have to listen to this. I really am a fan of organ music.

[ardcarp]

Just a heads up for organ buffs that Widor's Symphony V will be the subject of Record Review on 7th April.

[ocarina]

Hi ardcarp,
Curious comment from presenter about wir glauben as the discs cover clavierubung 3 in order, beginning with prelude in e flat. The way it lies in this recording means that disc 2 opens with bwv681 which is the smalller (manual) wir glauben, and not the giant fugue (also a favourite of mine!). So maybe a little esoteric but no more unusual than beginning side 2 with the 3rd movement of a symphony?! Or am I missing something?

[BBMmk2]

I love that cycle of Bach's Die Clavierubung. I don't think I have a recording of this yet?

[Caussade]

I love that cycle of Bach's Die Clavierubung. I don't think I have a recording of this yet?

a comparative review of JJ's set and another which appeared recently https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/...ii-bwv669-89-0

[Caussade]

Hi ardcarp,
Curious comment from presenter about wir glauben as the discs cover clavierubung 3 in order, beginning with prelude in e flat. The way it lies in this recording means that disc 2 opens with bwv681 which is the smalller (manual) wir glauben, and not the giant fugue (also a favourite of mine!). So maybe a little esoteric but no more unusual than beginning side 2 with the 3rd movement of a symphony?! Or am I missing something?

Intentionally or not, opening the disc with 681 reflects an aspect of planning in the Clavierubung as a whole. Each part (this is Peter Williams' insight, not mine) has a French Overture at its centre (opening of Partita 4: the first movement of the French Overture in Pt 2: BWV 681: the 16th variation of the Goldbergs). BWV 552 - a French Overture, albeit stylised - stands at the centre of the entire Clavierubung. PW also points out a pleasing further conceit - the tonic notes of the partitas in succession - Bb, c, a, D, G, e - make a little tune which leads to the chord of F major - which is the first thing you hear at the start of part 2, the Italian Concerto.

[ardcarp]

Hi ardcarp,
Curious comment from presenter about wir glauben as the discs cover clavierubung 3 in order, beginning with prelude in e flat. The way it lies in this recording means that disc 2 opens with bwv681 which is the smalller (manual) wir glauben, and not the giant fugue (also a favourite of mine!). So maybe a little esoteric but no more unusual than beginning side 2 with the 3rd movement of a symphony?! Or am I missing something?

I'm confused as well. But like you Wir Glauben (aka 'Giant Fugue' ....how did it get that name?) is one of my faves too. When let loose on a big instrument, I'm ashamed to say I do something very un-HIPP and add something extra for the final appearance of the pedal motif.