Elgar Organ Sonata

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  • Vox Humana
    Full Member
    • Dec 2012
    • 1250

    #16
    Originally posted by Braunschlag View Post
    I like my Elgar and I've really tried with this piece but it really does nothing for me at all. It's not particularly well written for the instrument, containing little in the way of registration indications...
    That's because it isn't organ music. In those dark days of the pre-phonograph one-man-band Elgar no doubt imagined it was, along with everyone else, but, let's be honest, it's really an orchestral piece and sounds way better performed by that medium. I think it's splendid music, but the organ murders it (however virtuosically it's played - and, believe me, I've heard some impressive performances).

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    • BBMmk2
      Late Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 20908

      #17
      Originally posted by Braunschlag View Post
      It's my view entirely and I suspect that it's included in recital programmes not because it's a good piece but simply that it has Elgar as it's composer. The orchestration of it doesn't really improve things either.
      Unless you have heard the brass band transcription by Dr Robert Childs and played by The Cory Band!
      Don’t cry for me
      I go where music was born

      J S Bach 1685-1750

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      • Braunschlag
        Full Member
        • Jul 2017
        • 484

        #18
        Originally posted by Vox Humana View Post
        That's because it isn't organ music. In those dark days of the pre-phonograph one-man-band Elgar no doubt imagined it was, along with everyone else, but, let's be honest, it's really an orchestral piece and sounds way better performed by that medium. I think it's splendid music, but the organ murders it (however virtuosically it's played - and, believe me, I've heard some impressive performances).
        Entirely my point, maybe that didn't come across. It really doesn't belong in the organ loft and simply doesn't work in that version. Maybe I ought to give the orchestration another go.

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        • Pabmusic
          Full Member
          • May 2011
          • 5537

          #19
          Ooo... You are unkind. It was a short-notice commission from an unknown composer, for Hugh Blair to play at an event in Worcester Cathedral. And yet it still stands up as a reasonable work - in fact the largest- scale work Elgar had attempted (except perhaps Harmony Music 5).

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          • Eine Alpensinfonie
            Host
            • Nov 2010
            • 20570

            #20
            Originally posted by Braunschlag View Post
            Which suggests then that it wasn't particularly well written for the organ in the first place.
            That seems to be a strange kind of logic.

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            • Braunschlag
              Full Member
              • Jul 2017
              • 484

              #21
              Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
              That seems to be a strange kind of logic.
              Not at all. My original post stated that it wasn't particularly well written for the organ. If some listeners then consider the orchestration, in this case of the Adagio, is better then QED:)

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              • Braunschlag
                Full Member
                • Jul 2017
                • 484

                #22
                Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
                Ooo... You are unkind. It was a short-notice commission from an unknown composer, for Hugh Blair to play at an event in Worcester Cathedral. And yet it still stands up as a reasonable work - in fact the largest- scale work Elgar had attempted (except perhaps Harmony Music 5).
                Not quite true. Hugh Blair might well have given its first performance but it originated as some sort of commission for a visitation of American organists. There's also good documentation to suggest it didn't have Worcester Cathedral in mind as the instrument either.

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                • Braunschlag
                  Full Member
                  • Jul 2017
                  • 484

                  #23
                  If anyone has an hour to spare this article is an interesting account of the circumstances surrounding the Sonata. The first part is for organ fans I suppose but the section about the Sonata is of relevance here.

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                  • Eine Alpensinfonie
                    Host
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 20570

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Braunschlag View Post
                    Not at all. My original post stated that it wasn't particularly well written for the organ. If some listeners then consider the orchestration, in this case of the Adagio, is better then QED:)
                    It can be well-written for both, e.g. Pictures at an Exhibition.

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                    • Braunschlag
                      Full Member
                      • Jul 2017
                      • 484

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                      It can be well-written for both, e.g. Pictures at an Exhibition.
                      In that particular case I'd plump for the orchestration over the piano version but don't get me going over that particular piece....

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                      • EdgeleyRob
                        Guest
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 12180

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Braunschlag View Post
                        If anyone has an hour to spare this article is an interesting account of the circumstances surrounding the Sonata. The first part is for organ fans I suppose but the section about the Sonata is of relevance here.
                        http://www.pykett.org.uk/elgar's_organ_sonata.htm
                        Thanks for this

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                        • Vile Consort
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 696

                          #27
                          If you think the Sonata is bad, try sitting through the Vesper Voluntaries.

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                          • Eine Alpensinfonie
                            Host
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 20570

                            #28
                            The Organ Music volume of the Elgar Complete Edition is by far the slimmest of the entire series to date, and it even includes an imposter: the 2nd Organ Sonata, arranged by Sir Ivor Atkins from the Severn Suite.

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                            • Braunschlag
                              Full Member
                              • Jul 2017
                              • 484

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Vile Consort View Post
                              If you think the Sonata is bad, try sitting through the Vesper Voluntaries.
                              I did once, during a recital by someone who was capable of far greater things.
                              Tedious, boring and pointless, it made The Village Organist albums seem positively scintillating.

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                              • Eine Alpensinfonie
                                Host
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 20570

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Braunschlag View Post
                                I did once, during a recital by someone who was capable of far greater things.
                                Tedious, boring and pointless, it made The Village Organist albums seem positively scintillating.
                                Elgar composed them for individual insertion in services.

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