Organ at Charlton Kings, Cheltenham

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Some years ago, I attended a service at St Mary's, Charlton Kings, and didn't have any issues with the organ. The friends who took me told me afterwards that it was an electronic instrument - perhaps a little surprising for a church of this size. I notice this was updated in 2006:

http://www.stmarysmusic.org.uk/organ.php

Are there many other large churches with electric organs? I know they are common (and often not very good) in smaller establishments.

[ardcarp]

For many years, Christchuch Priory in Hampshire had a large Makin electronic instrument. (The old Compton pipe organ was still there but unusable.) Because technology had not at that time managed to imitate the 'out-of-phase' nature of real pipe-organ sound, they had the treble speakers mounted on rotating windmill arms which produced a faint Doppler effect. I guess there must be a decent pipe organ there now. In general, I despise electronic instruments, except for private practice. Of the ones I've come across, Copeman Hart seem closest in sound to the real thing.

[ahinton]

For many years, Christchuch Priory in Hampshire had a large Makin electronic instrument. (The old Compton pipe organ was still there but unusable.) Because technology had not at that time managed to imitate the 'out-of-phase' nature of real pipe-organ sound, they had the treble speakers mounted on rotating windmill arms which produced a faint Doppler effect. I guess there must be a decent pipe organ there now. In general, I despise electronic instruments, except for private practice. Of the ones I've come across, Copeman Hart seem closest in sound to the real thing.

Ask Kevin Bowyer about Copeman Hart (or rather don't!).

The problem here is obviously the sheer cost of organ maintenance and overhaul which together can run into six figures if not seven; who can afford it other than very well heeled curches that are not already struggling wioth other aspects of their daily upkeep? A great pity, though, as my feelings about electronic ones is pretty much the same as yours.

[Frances_iom]

Ask Kevin Bowyer about Copeman Hart (or rather don't!).
.

I have 2 CDs issued by Copeman Hart (stickered as 'loan copy' tho bought 2nd hand) one recorded Aug 1993 by Andrew Fletcher at Keble college the other byRoger Fisher at Wells Cathedral in April 1995. Don't know if either still in place or were temporary replacements

[jean]

Here (p. 6) is an item about the Copeman Hart organ in St Agnes Toxteth Park Liverpool.

[mangerton]

Because technology had not at that time managed to imitate the 'out-of-phase' nature of real pipe-organ sound, they had the treble speakers mounted on rotating windmill arms which produced a faint Doppler effect.

Leslie speakers. These were commonly used with Hammond organs.

[ardcarp]

On a recent jaunt to Normandy, I was shocked at the number of fantastic Romanesque and Gothic churches, some vast even though in small towns and villages, that had nothing but a small electronic gadget. Some had no evidence of speakers except at the knees of the player, and some churches had obvious lacunae at the West end where an instrument had once stood.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I feel much the same way about electric pianos.

[ahinton]

I feel much the same way about electric pianos.

I am inclined to do so only because that's what they're generally called; a Fender Rhodes, for example (and how this dates me!) had its own legitimate life, especially in certain types of jazz, but I've never thought of it as as "piano" - it's a different kind of keyboard instrument, as is a celesta

[ardcarp]

I feel much the same way about electric pianos.

Me too.

[vinteuil]

I feel much the same way about electric pianos.

... o, you don't find them an improvement on those olde worlde unreliable 'Steinways'?

After all, you find your Steinway such an improvement on those 19th century instruments...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... o, you don't find them an improvement on those olde worlde unreliable 'Steinways'?

I certainly don't .

After all, you find your Steinway such an improvement on those 19th century instruments...

I certainly do. Those early prototypes are interesting though.

[Vile Consort]

Ask Kevin Bowyer about Copeman Hart (or rather don't!).

The problem here is obviously the sheer cost of organ maintenance and overhaul which together can run into six figures if not seven; who can afford it other than very well heeled curches that are not already struggling wioth other aspects of their daily upkeep? A great pity, though, as my feelings about electronic ones is pretty much the same as yours.

The cost argument doesn't always favour electronic instruments by any means.

A diocesan organ advisor posted on Facebook only this week about a church that has spent £40,000 on electronic organs in two decades and now has one where the 8 ft open diapason on the great isn't working.

I don't think it is uncommon for an electronic organ to have to be replaced in less than 20 years either because it has stopped working and cannot be repaired (or can be but at a cost that would be sufficient to purchase a new instrument) or because the congregation have noticed that it isn't very satisfactory.

A good mechanical action organ would cost less in the long term. The problem is being able to afford the initial outlay, of course.

[ahinton]

The cost argument doesn't always favour electronic instruments by any means.

A diocesan organ advisor posted on Facebook only this week about a church that has spent £40,000 on electronic organs in two decades and now has one where the 8 ft open diapason on the great isn't working.

I don't think it is uncommon for an electronic organ to have to be replaced in less than 20 years either because it has stopped working and cannot be repaired (or can be but at a cost that would be sufficient to purchase a new instrument) or because the congregation have noticed that it isn't very satisfactory.

A good mechanical action organ would cost less in the long term. The problem is being able to afford the initial outlay, of course.

That is indeed one of the problems but, whilst the longevity of electronic organs might be less than one would hope, the cost of building, maintaining and occasionally refurbishing even, say, a three-manual 50-speaking-stop instrument with all the electronic registration programming and the rest (to say nothing of something considerably more substantial) would surely outpace that of any equivalent electronic instrument?

[ahinton]

... o, you don't find them an improvement on those olde worlde unreliable 'Steinways'?

After all, you find your Steinway such an improvement on those 19th century instruments...

I have both - that's to say not two pianos but a 19th century Steinway Model C, dating from 1896 and fully refurbished to a very high standard by a brilliant technician in 2008-2012; whilst its sound remains different to a modern equivalent, it will long outlast me!