CE Lincoln Cathedral Wed, 12th Feb 2014

[Vox Humana]

You're one or two up on me there, ardcarp. I never knew Mary Berry, though I did once have a brief correspondence with her about a plainsong matter and she was very gracious and helpful. As far as Sarum is concerned, the directions for the liturgy contained in the customary were pretty (though not 100%) comprehensive about who sang what, when and where - although anywhere other than the cathedral the customary must often have been treated more like a text representing an ideal. Most parish churches would not be able to perform the processions to the letter, for example. Also, chanting is a lot older than the Use of Sarum and I certainly don't claim any expertise in the earlier forms and traditions. So your point is fair. However, because I value the English cathedral choral tradition I prefer to emphasise its roots in the Use of Sarum (and here we skate deftly past York, Hereford and the rest). I'm the first to admit that it's a pedantic thing to bang on about. There's no reason why we have to stick to tradition, though I think it's often rather nice to do so.

[terratogen]

Perfectly kosher. Alternating soloist and choir has a long history, I think; and IMO it is a beautiful way of doing plainsong psalms too. As for who sang it, who cares? It was exceptionally well done.

Sorry, Ardcarp; I didn't make myself clear. I know that it's quite common for a solo voice from among the choir to take the plainsong in hymns and in psalms, and I've heard it done several times in several places. I was asking more if the solo voice here was also the voice of the person leading the responses, etc., and if that person was one of the trebles. I would need to listen again, but the soloist and the precentor role initially struck me as being very similar, and I at times wondered if I wasn't hearing a priest or a precentor, but one of the choristers singing the responses. That I've never encountered, and I wasn't sure if it would be considered liturgically appropriate for a lay member of the choir to take such a role in the service.

ETA: Agreeing that it was exceptionally done regardless of the person or people singing. Simply curious!

[ardcarp]

I was asking more if the solo voice here was also the voice of the person leading the responses

It is wonderful when the precentor/succentor happens to have a glorious voice. Martin Shaw (the current one, not the bygone hymn writer and editor) was one of the very best, being a fine solo singer in his own right. Lucky old Bury St Edmunds got him, but latterly he went on to be Bishop of Argyll and The Isles, which musically speaking was a bit of a waste. (Sorry Martin...joke.)

[LTFC1990]

You may be interested that the cantor for the service was in fact The Revd Sal McDougall, who is the Bishop's Chaplain, as well as a Priest Vicar at the cathedral. It is the practice at Lincoln, always to sing the office hymn in this way, ie alternating solo and congregational verses, and this is usually sung by The Precentor, or one of the Priest Vicars.

[ardcarp]

Thanks! Hope to see you lots on The Choir board.

[terratogen]

You may be interested that the cantor for the service was in fact The Revd Sal McDougall, who is the Bishop's Chaplain, as well as a Priest Vicar at the cathedral. It is the practice at Lincoln, always to sing the office hymn in this way, ie alternating solo and congregational verses, and this is usually sung by The Precentor, or one of the Priest Vicars.

Thanks kindly; that's exactly what I was interested in knowing. It didn't think that a chorister would have been doing it, but I suppose I've been more surprised than that before. Well done, Reverend.

[mopsus]

I went to one of Mary Berry's workshops in Oxford. I prefer her flexible approach to the rather more structuralist attitude of Dom Eugene Cardine in the booklet I bought at Solesmes a few years ago, which didn't really account for the variant versions of chants. But I'm not an expert on plainchant.

[mw963]

Having only caught the end of the repeat just now I was slightly surprised to hear the back anno to the effect that it was "an edited repeat".

Is anyone able to enlighten me as to what changed with respect to the original? Just out of interest.

Thanks.

[VodkaDilc]

Having only caught the end of the repeat just now I was slightly surprised to hear the back anno to the effect that it was "an edited repeat".

Is anyone able to enlighten me as to what changed with respect to the original? Just out of interest.

Thanks.

I was about to ask the same question.

[MickyD]

Hopefully not a "best of" version enabling us to tweet in our favourite items!

[Wolsey]

Well, Vox, I am no scholar, but I was lucky enough to study plainsong with the late, great Mary Berry.

You are in good company. I have happy memories when up at Cambridge of cycling to Newnham on Monday evenings for her Schola Gregoriana of Cambridge sessions. The Schola tour to the Abbaye De Sénanque under her direction was an unforgettable experience.

[ardcarp]

Happy days, Wolsey.

[DracoM]

Was at Senanque four years ago and stumbled in on a celebration of Sext. Four people listening including me and five monks chanting.
Outside, shed loads of tourists, milling and crowding in the sun.
Inside, blessed cool and calm.

[MickyD]

It's a pity that Sénanque has been turned into such a tourist trap with an enormous car park and lines and lines of coaches. Last time I was there, the gift shop had got bigger than ever, with a huge array of choral CDs at outrageous prices. Sadly it is obviously big business.

[mopsus]

I went to a Sunday Mass at Sénanque a few years ago; there were few tourists and a couple of hundred worshippers. The music wasn't Gregorian chant, though, but simple four-part chants which I imagine were (or were inspired by) Orthodox chant. I could see why the service was popular: not only the beautiful setting, but musically far preferable to the pre-recorded soundtracks which accompanied masses at other local churches.