Olivier Latry @ Ripon Cathedral

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  • Alain Maréchal
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 1288

    #16
    There must be an organist reading who can confirm the meaning in context, but "corner" is to honk, like a standard two-tone car horn (e.g. Parisian taxi), and I always thought it referred to the two notes sounding together (possibly because of a malfunction or a clumsy finger). A berceuse is a cradle song, and a cradle sways from side to side.
    Last edited by Alain Maréchal; 14-01-14, 13:44.

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    • Mr Stoat

      #17
      Originally posted by mercia View Post
      here its translated as lullaby on two stuck keys

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8915XfFOVk
      AHAH! Does it involve "wedging" 2 notes? I've never heard it or seen the score, but..............??

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      • Vile Consort
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 696

        #18
        I have the score here. Treble C-sharp and D-sharp are held down right through the piece.

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        • Sonic

          #19
          Originally posted by Mr Stoat View Post
          I speak french to a reasonable standard; my stepdaughter lives and works in france and speaks fluently, but even she cannot translate the exact meaning of Alain's "Berceuse sur deux notes qui cornent" "Lullaby on two notes which ??????" Anyone help please?
          'Stick' I beleive......

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          • Mr Stoat

            #20
            Originally posted by Vile Consort View Post
            I have the score here. Treble C-sharp and D-sharp are held down right through the piece.
            Bingo! Thanks! Must get hold of it (along with more Alain pieces) I only play the Deux Chorales at the moment
            Last edited by Nick Armstrong; 14-01-14, 17:52. Reason: Quote assist ;)

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            • mangerton
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 3346

              #21
              IANAnO, but the technical term is "cipher", which is when an organ pipe sounds even when the key is not depressed. That is the description used in the booklet accompanying my complete works recording by Kevin Bowyer on Nimbus. Perhaps the organ chez Alain exhibited that fault on these two notes at some point.

              I'd love to go to this recital - I have the Franck CD mentioned by Alain Maréchal - but Dundee to Ripon is a bit too far in February.

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              • ardcarp
                Late member
                • Nov 2010
                • 11102

                #22
                French mistress (yes, back already) bemused by title of piece, but I guess we already have the answer!

                I think writing a piece over a held note has been done quite often....only example springing to mind immediately is Purcell's fantasia.

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                • Mr Stoat

                  #23
                  Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
                  French mistress (yes, back already) bemused by title of piece, but I guess we already have the answer!

                  I think writing a piece over a held note has been done quite often....only example springing to mind immediately is Purcell's fantasia.
                  Dubois - Marche des Rois Mages.....

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                  • Alain Maréchal
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 1288

                    #24
                    Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
                    French mistress (yes, back already) bemused by title of piece, but I guess we already have the answer!

                    I think writing a piece over a held note has been done quite often....only example springing to mind immediately is Purcell's fantasia.
                    Grainger: The Immovable Do

                    mangerton is correct in that the technical term for a stuck note is a cipher, but I suggest JA's title refers to the effect created, not the manner in which it is achieved.

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                    • Vox Humana
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2012
                      • 1253

                      #25
                      Originally posted by mangerton View Post
                      Perhaps the organ chez Alain exhibited that fault on these two notes at some point.
                      In the notes to one of her recordings of her brother's complete works, Marie-Claire Alain suggests precisely this. Apparently the organ had very light pallets and frequently suffered such faults.

                      Originally posted by Alain Maréchal View Post
                      mangerton is correct in that the technical term for a stuck note is a cipher, but I suggest JA's title refers to the effect created, not the manner in which it is achieved.
                      That is interesting. I was under the same impression as mangerton. So what is the French for a cipher - or does referring to the effect suffice?

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                      • Alain Maréchal
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 1288

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Vox Humana View Post
                        . So what is the French for a cipher - or does referring to the effect suffice?
                        I attend recitals often enough but I'm not an organist, so I don't know what the technical word would be. Somebody reading this must know.
                        I was approaching "Berceuse sur deux notes qui cornent" in its descriptive and allusive sense rather than its technical meaning. I would give "cradle-song with two rocking notes" to maintain the implied other meanings of corner. Direct translations from one language to another are good for clarity but death to sensibility.
                        Last edited by Alain Maréchal; 14-01-14, 23:15.

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                        • subcontrabass
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 2780

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Vox Humana View Post
                          So what is the French for a cipher - or does referring to the effect suffice?
                          According to my French-English dictionary the term for the musical verb "to cipher" is "corner".

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                          • Vox Humana
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2012
                            • 1253

                            #28
                            Ah! Thank you. An open and shut case then. As we thought: "Cradle-song on Two Ciphering Notes".

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                            • Nick Armstrong
                              Host
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 26597

                              #29
                              Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
                              French mistress (yes, back already)
                              Your security guard has been stood down from croissant duty in the morning, then...?
                              "...the isle is full of noises,
                              Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
                              Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
                              Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

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                              • Vox Humana
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2012
                                • 1253

                                #30
                                Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
                                French mistress (yes, back already)
                                Sacré bleu! Vous êtes Neddie Toulouse-Lautrec!

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