CE Salisbury Cathedral 15th Jan 2014

[Vox Humana]

BTW, I'm always amused when the Regalschplatt at St Mungo's College Oxbridge makes such a poor attempt at Howells.

Does it though? For my money the CDs of Howells from New College, Oxford (x2) and The Queens College, Oxford (here sharing the honours with Leighton) are all hugely enjoyable (apart from that raucous Great Trumpet at New). But then, I am perfectly capable - when it suits me - of sitting back and enjoying music for what it is without letting preconceptions of what it ought to sound like spoil my enjoyment.

So are you suggesting that it's getting towards the time when the Willis should be ripped out and replaced with something more polyvalent (to borrow from the French language a bit).

Hasn't that been tried in some places, and indeed regretted......?

Well, assuming you mean eclectic organs, doesn't that beg some questions? Judging from opinions elsewhere on the web, they do seem to be widely regretted by those whose prime requirements for an English cathedral organ start with a rolling Pedal Open Wood and proceed from there, but I imagine those who are in sympathy with that type of organ appreciate them well enough. Are the organs of, say, Bradford Cathedral, Coventry Cathedral and St George's, Windsor, not up to the job of service accompaniment? I know of none who have suggested this, although I believe the building at Bradford (which I have never visited) presents problems. Of course today one might prefer a unified style of voicing rather than disparate ones nestling cheek by jowl - which brings us to the new Tickell at Worcester... I did play a large eclectic organ for three years and found it wonderful (albeit not without faults) for both service accompaniment and repertoire.

[Wolsey]

Salisbury Cathedral's Henry Willis is one of his better specimens but measured against the great organs of the world, all [my underlining] of his mighty beasts lack the character, variety, bite and presence of the best.

The "best" being? You've heard and/or played the Father Willis instruments at St Paul's and Truro Cathedrals, the recently-restored organ at the Union Chapel, Islington, or his grandson's instrument at Westminster Cathedral? Do they really lack "character, variety, bite and presence"?

[mw963]

Well, assuming you mean eclectic organs, doesn't that beg some questions? Judging from opinions elsewhere on the web, they do seem to be widely regretted by those whose prime requirements for an English cathedral organ start with a rolling Pedal Open Wood and proceed from there, but I imagine those who are in sympathy with that type of organ appreciate them well enough.

I think perhaps I can see where *your* sympathies lie!!

Are the organs of, say, Bradford Cathedral, Coventry Cathedral and St George's, Windsor, not up to the job of service accompaniment?

Did I say that?

What I was perhaps trying to suggest is that it is difficult to specify an organ that will serve all the roles expected of it (some of those roles arising long after it was commissioned) and in dismissing the suitablitity of Willis and looking for something with more bite (which was not your suggestion I know but seemed to be implied in an earlier post) one might just be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

But clearly you know a great deal more about all this than I do so I'm not really in a position to argue further, apart from saying that I hope Willis and Harrison organs will at least last me out.....

I know of none who have suggested this, although I believe the building at Bradford (which I have never visited) presents problems. Of course today one might prefer a unified style of voicing rather than disparate ones nestling cheek by jowl - which brings us to the new Tickell at Worcester... I did play a large eclectic organ for three years and found it wonderful (albeit not without faults) for both service accompaniment and repertoire.

Are you able to tell us more (about the Worcester and your own experience on the large eclectic organ)?

[DracoM]

Intrigued that only one posting actually talks about the singing in the Salisbury service. Hmm.

[mw963]

Well DracoM why don't you tell us what YOU thought of it? It might get a discussion going.

I don't feel sufficiently qualified to comment. Having said that I did have a hunch several times during the service that it might be the Girls Choir, and a subsequent visit to the cathedral website confirmed my thoughts. But I was by no means certain.

Certainly enjoyed it.

[Vox Humana]

Are you able to tell us more (about the Worcester and your own experience on the large eclectic organ)?

Well, with apologies for taking this thread even further off topic... The organ I played regularly (and I would really rather not identify it) was a very long time ago and my memory has probably become distorted somewhat, but its strength lay in its very clever design. It was intended to have the necessary range of expression (warmth, fire, brilliance, etc) whilst avoiding anything approaching mud/thickness that might clog the musical textures. For service accompaniment and the Romantic repertoire there was a full range of colours on Great and a very complete Swell, plus the expected solo stops and some useful Choir stops. Stanford anthems/services could be rich and colourful; Baroque continuo parts could be transparent, or even sparkling of one so wished. For repertoire you could play almost anything and get some hint of the sound-world the composer expected with something approaching the "right" stops. Full organ could sound either (reasonably) smoothly English or fierily French as required. For Baroque music there were clean diapasons and a chiffy Positive, for English voluntaries a Cornet (albeit not very pleasant) and so on. It coped less well with French Baroque music, but it managed. The Pedal Organ was independent of the Great at all dynamic levels and the Great and Pedal pistons were set up so that their volumes matched; in all the time I was there the Great to Pedal coupler was never once used as it merely resulted in an excess of bass. About the only thing the organ lacked was an undulating diapason for Italian elevation toccatas. I did have some minor niggles, but my only serious reservation about it (more now than then) was the chiffy Positive which didn't really gel with the rest of the instrument, though the Cymbal did make a wonderfully sparkling addition to the Great chorus in Bach.

The Tickell at Worcester I only know from one brief visit to the organ loft with my local organists' association. I would have loved more time to explore it, but we had a very ample demonstration. In brief, it seemed to have all the flexibility for repertoire and accompaniment of the organ described above with the advantage that it also had a unified style of voicing throughout - no mixing Cavaillé-Coll reeds with chiffy flues! Others might feel, possibly, that the organ is consequently a little bland, but I thought it managed to avoid that. I think if I could play it every day I would come to love it quite quickly.

[DracoM]

Well DracoM why don't you tell us what YOU thought of it? It might get a discussion going.

I don't feel sufficiently qualified to comment. Having said that I did have a hunch several times during the service that it might be the Girls Choir, and a subsequent visit to the cathedral website confirmed my thoughts. But I was by no means certain.

Certainly enjoyed it.

No, no, the organ thread is fascinating and far better informed, and above all FRIENDLY!! Oh yes, girls form the very first notes!

[mw963]

Well it's better informed thanks to VH - I'm not sure I can contribute much but was very interested to read VH's experiences. Thank you.

I have to confess that I am about to take delivery of a Hauptwerk system - playable from my Phoenix. Not that my playing merits it, but I'm hoping for the best of all worlds with Hereford (which - pace the Willis detractors here - sounds superb to my ears), Metz, and (oh dear - how can I put this?) the Paramount Theatre Organ set.

Whilst of course I'd far rather have a small but costly cathedral in which to practise, Hauptwerk is the first electronic system I've come across that actually is totally non-fatiguing to play. And the hearty reverb on Hereford covers up the most appalling playing on my part, as I discovered having had a chance to borrow a Hereford system at home over Christmas.

[terratogen]

Well DracoM why don't you tell us what YOU thought of it? It might get a discussion going.

I don't feel sufficiently qualified to comment. Having said that I did have a hunch several times during the service that it might be the Girls Choir, and a subsequent visit to the cathedral website confirmed my thoughts. But I was by no means certain.

Certainly enjoyed it.

I'm not entirely sure why, but to my ear, excepting their very early days, the girls at Salisbury have always sound like the girls at Salisbury; I suspect that I'd no sooner mistake them for the boys at Salisbury than I would for the girls at York. They seem always to have a very 'bright' sound and to shape their vowels in a way that admittedly leaves me scratching my head a bit.

Maybe it was just all of the Alleluias, but the introit reminded me in some ways of a less vital 'Alleluia, Laudete Pueri' (Jackson), which I believe this choir has also recorded. Then again, maybe just me and my cloth ears.

I don't know that I'd ever before attended a service on the infamous 15th Evening, so I was delighted to hear the 78th psalm in its entirety. I don't have the recording immediately accessible, but I'm recalling that one of the chants near the end made me think, "Ah! Yes, we've arrived now," in much the way that the second instance of the anthem's "aurum, thus, et myrrham" has always done. I'll have to listen again to pinpoint it.

Thanks, Team Salisbury, for an enjoyable Epiphany evensong.

[ardcarp]

I don't know that I'd ever before attended a service on the infamous 15th Evening, so I was delighted to hear the 78th psalm in its entirety. I don't have the recording immediately accessible, but I'm recalling that one of the chants near the end made me think, "Ah! Yes, we've arrived now,"

I think you may be referring to A.H. ('Daddy') Mann's chant as heard on the iconic Psalms of David LP from King's under Willcocks. It does round off Ps.78 in, as you say, a 'coming home' sort of way.

[edashtav]

The "best" being? You've heard and/or played the Father Willis instruments at St Paul's and Truro Cathedrals, the recently-restored organ at the Union Chapel, Islington, or his grandson's instrument at Westminster Cathedral? Do they really lack "character, variety, bite and presence"?

I've heard and admired the Westminster Cathedral organ, frequently, without realising that it had been built by a younger Willis. I concede that my condemnation of ALL Willis organs was ill-judged.