CE Salisbury Cathedral 15th Jan 2014

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  • DracoM
    Host
    • Mar 2007
    • 12993

    CE Salisbury Cathedral 15th Jan 2014

    CE Salisbury Cathedral



    Order of Service:



    Introit: Alleluia! Today a star led the wise men (Richard Shephard)
    Responses: Ayleward
    Psalm: 78 (Oakeley; Garrett; Stonex; Monk; Parry; Goss; Stanford; Mann)
    First Lesson: Amos 3: 1-8
    Office Hymn: The race that long in darkness pined (Dundee)
    Canticles: Watson in E
    Second Lesson: 1 Corinthians 2
    Anthem: Videntes stellam (Poulenc)
    Hymn: Songs of thankfulness and praise (St Edmund)



    Organ Voluntary: Allegro risoluto (Symphony No.2, Op.20) (Vierne)




    John Challenger (Assistant Director of Music)
    David Halls (Director of Music)
  • chrisjstanley
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 86

    #2
    15th evening and Psalm 78.

    Can't wait!!

    Chris S

    Comment

    • DracoM
      Host
      • Mar 2007
      • 12993

      #3
      Sorry: I should have consulted the cathedral website to clarify that the Shephard was a 'world premiere' apparently. Not on the BBC site.

      Loved the Vierne.

      Comment

      • edashtav
        Full Member
        • Jul 2012
        • 3672

        #4
        Originally posted by DracoM View Post
        Sorry: I should have consulted the cathedral website to clarify that the Shephard was a 'world premiere' apparently. Not on the BBC site.

        Loved the Vierne.
        The Shephard was disappointing. Alleluias dominated the scene, relegating the Epiphany text to the background. The piece said nothing new and passed the time cheerfully without justifying the piece's existence. The performance was confident and well-prepared.
        I enjoyed a nicely varied Psalm 78, a mammoth psalm bristling with colouful phrases but which needs careful handling to prevent it seeming endless. Poulenc's gorgeous Videntes Stellam was sung unidiomaticallywith some inner voices sounding detached so that they detracted from the homogeneity of the sound spectrum. Watson's canticles were unoriginal and made a superficial impression. The hymns were leaden. The Vierne voluntary sounded emasculated to my ears, not because it was poorly played but through the blandness of its registration exacerbated by the muddy acoustics of Salisbury Cathedral.
        Last edited by edashtav; 15-01-14, 22:14. Reason: clarification

        Comment

        • ardcarp
          Late member
          • Nov 2010
          • 11102

          #5
          The Vierne voluntary sounded emasculated to my ears, not because it was poorly played but through the blandness of its registration exacerbated by the muddy acoustics of Salisbury Cathedral.
          I'm not sure the word 'emasculated' sprang to mind. Given the (rather fine) Willis, one just has to accept that whether listening to Bach or Vierne, it's going to be Willis-Bach and Willis-Vierne. As there's not much you can do about the instrument or the acoustic, you might as well lie back, think of England and enjoy...as I did.

          Comment

          • edashtav
            Full Member
            • Jul 2012
            • 3672

            #6
            Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
            I'm not sure the word 'emasculated' sprang to mind. Given the (rather fine) Willis, one just has to accept that whether listening to Bach or Vierne, it's going to be Willis-Bach and Willis-Vierne. As there's not much you can do about the instrument or the acoustic, you might as well lie back, think of England and enjoy...as I did.
            Ooh, I so wish that I could have done but I missed a good, French "orgasm", ardcarp!
            Last edited by edashtav; 16-01-14, 12:32. Reason: ridiculous grammatical errors

            Comment

            • chitreb
              Full Member
              • Nov 2012
              • 126

              #7
              I'm glad I had few preconceptions about the Vierne - I was able to enjoy it as it was - some more fine organ playing imo.

              Is it me or have we had a lot of girls top lines on CE lately? Anyway, the Salisbury girls made a fine sound and came across at ease with the music they were singing across the spectrum, whether the 15th evening psalm, the Sheppard (yes there were/was an overabundance of alleluias), or the Poulenc.

              Comment

              • ardcarp
                Late member
                • Nov 2010
                • 11102

                #8
                Ooh, I so wish that I could have done but I missed a good, French "orgasm", ardcarp!
                ...always available on i-player.

                Comment

                • Mr Stoat

                  #9
                  I think someone once said something like "You can play the Salisbury Willis however you like, but in the end it will play the music its own way." ??

                  Comment

                  • edashtav
                    Full Member
                    • Jul 2012
                    • 3672

                    #10
                    Will Salisbury become Jericho?

                    Originally posted by Mr Stoat View Post
                    I think someone once said something like "You can play the Salisbury Willis however you like, but in the end it will play the music its own way." ??
                    Yes, Mr Stoic, but that's hardly a defence, is it?

                    In June 1947, the Western Daily Press reported: "The walls of Salisbury Cathedral may fall on the mighty Willis organ through excessive use of its 32 ft stops," said an architect yesterday.

                    We must not confuse raw power with majesty.

                    Salisbury Cathedral's Henry Willis is one of his better specimens but measured against the great organs of the world, all of his mighty beasts lack the character, variety, bite and presence of the best.

                    Comment

                    • Mr Stoat

                      #11
                      Originally posted by edashtav View Post
                      Yes, Mr Stoic, but that's hardly a defence, is it?

                      In June 1947, the Western Daily Press reported: "The walls of Salisbury Cathedral may fall on the mighty Willis organ through excessive use of its 32 ft stops," said an architect yesterday.

                      We must not confuse raw power with majesty.

                      Salisbury Cathedral's Henry Willis is one of his better specimens but measured against the great organs of the world, all of his mighty beasts lack the character, variety, bite and presence of the best.
                      I've never been called Mr Stoic before!! I wasn't offering any "defence", merely recounting a comment I have read somewhere. I have neither played Salisbury, nor listened to the broadcast in question. Had I done so, and had I the pedigree of Mr Challenger, I might feel qualified to comment.

                      Comment

                      • ardcarp
                        Late member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 11102

                        #12
                        Salisbury Cathedral's Henry Willis is one of his better specimens but measured against the great organs of the world, all of his mighty beasts lack the character, variety, bite and presence of the best.
                        Hmmm. I'll bet it makes a better job of accompanying Anglican CE than some of 'the best'. HW's strings and reeds are just right for it, mainly because they were conceived for Victorian/Edwardian tastes around the time of the Oxford Reform Movement. (OK I know the BCP dates from 1662 and music from all periods is sung at CE these days, but it's still an ORM construct.)

                        BTW, I'm always amused when the Regalschplatt at St Mungo's College Oxbridge makes such a poor attempt at Howells.
                        Last edited by ardcarp; 17-01-14, 21:44.

                        Comment

                        • edashtav
                          Full Member
                          • Jul 2012
                          • 3672

                          #13
                          [QUOTE=ardcarp;370456]Hmmm. I'll bet it makes a better job of accompanying Anglican CE than some of 'the best'. HW's strings and reeds are just right for it, mainly because they were conceived for Victorian/Edwardian tastes around the time of the Oxford Reform Movement. (OK I know the BCP dates from 1662 and music from all periods is sung at CE these days, but it's still an ORM construct.)

                          Yes, I'm in complete agreement with you, arpcarp, re the suitability of HW organs for those parts of Anglican CE that were contemporaneous creations and felt that the psalm at Salisbury worked very well. But... when the voluntary is by Louis Vierne then the limitations of HW's confections are illumined all too brightly. As time's arrow takes us ever further from the Victorian/Edwardian eras, the proportion of music in Anglican CE services that dates from those times diminishes and, by extension, the suitability of HW organs for such acts of worship decreases, IMHO. Can you agree with that, I wonder?

                          Comment

                          • mw963
                            Full Member
                            • Feb 2012
                            • 538

                            #14
                            So are you suggesting that it's getting towards the time when the Willis should be ripped out and replaced with something more polyvalent (to borrow from the French language a bit).

                            Hasn't that been tried in some places, and indeed regretted......? Do you also regard Harrisons organs as "confections"?

                            Personally I rather enjoy the "displacement" of certain styles and eras into the wrong "situation". I agree it doesn't always work, but sometimes one hears things one might miss otherwise. I know that's sacrilege to the purists, but hey.....

                            Comment

                            • ardcarp
                              Late member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 11102

                              #15
                              Personally I rather enjoy the "displacement" of certain styles and eras into the wrong "situation". I agree it doesn't always work, but sometimes one hears things one might miss otherwise.
                              ...like the time I left the Zimbelstern on at the end of Cocker's Tuba Tune.

                              Comment

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