St Paul's Cathedral - archive broadcast

[mercia]

But did you hear it...?

it doesn't particularly stick in my memory 36 years later, I may have done
the Albert Hall acoustic would certainly have been more favourable for clarity than, say, St Paul's

[teamsaint]

No doubt you all know this website, but just in case....

http://www.inquiresandplaces.com/

Girls Choirs don't seem to figure, though !!

[Magnificat]

John Scott's obituary was published in The Independent on 3 January 2001 and another by him appeared in the May edition of Organists' Review that year. Having just read it, I can confirm that Dr Scott said absolutely nothing of the sort, and I think you had better retract associating his name with that remark.

Wolsey,

I am happy to do so but I certainly remember reading words to this effect somewhere (there was also an obituary in the Church Times I believe and possibly in the Telegraph both of which I read.)

I had no reason to say this if I did not believe it to be so, the words being so eye-catching.

If my memory is at fault then I retract it. But why did John Scott conduct this service when he was not yet in charge? It was unusual then as it is even now for a DoM to just play the organ in a broadcast CE. It may have been because JS was so talented at choir training similar to the way that the new post of Master of the Choir was created for Barry although this post ceased to exist after Barry left as the Dean and Chapter wished Christopher Dearnley to resume his full title.

It is quite possible that towards the end of his time at St Paul's ( JS was appointed his successor in 1990 I believe ) he did not, for whatever reason, do so much choir training and conducting.

VCC

[Vox Humana]

It was unusual then as it is even now for a DoM to just play the organ in a broadcast CE.

I don't find anything remarkable in this at all. The most likely explanation, I would suggest, is that it simply demonstrates a DoM's confidence in his assistant - and of course this particular assistant was exceptional by any standards. Even as a humble organ scholar in an historic pile (of which I was quite unworthy) I did an awful lot of conducting while the O&C played. I even ended up conducting on TV at one point (pretty much invisibly, it has to be said, but that's as it should be). Doesn't a good DoM - or any good manager, come to that - deploy his resources in whatever way is expedient to produce the best results?

[chitreb]

[QUOTE=VodkaDilc;364943]Wonderful! They certainly don't make them like that any more (or record them so well).
QUOTE]

Agreed. Such quality from beginning to end. A real gem.

[Mr Stoat]

I don't find anything remarkable in this at all. The most likely explanation, I would suggest, is that it simply demonstrates a DoM's confidence in his assistant - and of course this particular assistant was exceptional by any standards. Even as a humble organ scholar in an historic pile (of which I was quite unworthy) I did an awful lot of conducting while the O&C played. I even ended up conducting on TV at one point (pretty much invisibly, it has to be said, but that's as it should be). Doesn't a good DoM - or any good manager, come to that - deploy his resources in whatever way is expedient to produce the best results?

When Ian Tracey was O&MOTC at Liverpool, he usually played and Ian Wells conducted. Allan Wicks used to change places with his assistants on occasions.

[jean]

When Ian Tracey was O&MOTC at Liverpool, he usually played and Ian Wells conducted.

But he always called himself Organist - you got the impression that the choir bit was secondary.

I remember an event in Liverpool Cathedral involving choirs from a number of surrounding cathedrals, when all the DoMs were described as Organist, whatever their normal practice.

Now IT is Organist Titulaire of the Cathedral and has nothing to do with the choir at all (though he still trains the RLP choir, very successfully.)

[Mr Stoat]

But he always called himself Organist - you got the impression that the choir bit was secondary.

I remember an event in Liverpool Cathedral involving choirs from a number of surrounding cathedrals, when all the DoMs were described as Organist, whatever their normal practice.

Now IT is Organist Titulaire of the Cathedral and has nothing to do with the choir at all (though he still trains the RLP choir, very successfully.)

Allan Wicks was usually billed as "Organist" in the Radio Times for Canterbury Broadcasts

The Wikipedia entry for Liverpool cathedral gives the following list, which gives IT's original job as "Organist and Director of Music" Noel Rawsthorne was Organist when Ronald Woan was Director Of Music (don't think he played.....?) NR presumably had skills in the vocal area as he was my late mother's singing teacher at some stage.

Organists and directors of music
1910 – Frederick William Burstall
1915–1955 – Walter Henry Goss-Custard
1931–1982 – Ronald Woan (director of music)
1955–1980 – Noel Rawsthorne
1980 – Ian Tracey (later organist titulaire)
2008 – David Poulter (director of music)
Assistant organists
This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.
Noel Rawsthorne 1949–1955 (afterwards organist)
Louis Rust (part-time) student at Liverpool Institute and ex-chorister
Ian Tracey 1976–1980 (afterwards organist)
Ian Wells 1980–2007
Daniel Bishop 2010–present

[chitreb]

No doubt you all know this website, but just in case....

http://www.inquiresandplaces.com/

Girls Choirs don't seem to figure, though !!

Thank you so much for that link teamsaint. I was able to track down a recording of CE from 1962 when I was a treble in the choir.

[teamsaint]

Thank you so much for that link teamsaint. I was able to track down a recording of CE from 1962 when I was a treble in the choir.

Ah, glad at least one person found it useful.
It is quite a resource.
Hearing those kind of recordings can be very special, I think

[Petrushka]

Ah, glad at least one person found it useful.
It is quite a resource.
Hearing those kind of recordings can be very special, I think

I've only just spotted your link, ts. Priceless stuff! I'll have many a happy hour listening. Thanks.

Perhaps it should be in the Reference Library?

[gainasbass]

My thanks, also, teamsaint for the useful "inquiresandplaces" link. Most interesting. On my initial visit to this site I watched a 1966 BBC Songs of Praise recording from Guildford Cathedral - a short 6 years from the Cathedral's Consecration and establishment of the Cathedral Choir. Interesting to note that the organ was played by Barry Rose while his assistant Gavin Williams (who was never visible to the cameras) was credited with conducting.

[Mr Stoat]

My thanks, also, teamsaint for the useful "inquiresandplaces" link. Most interesting. On my initial visit to this site I watched a 1966 BBC Songs of Praise recording from Guildford Cathedral - a short 6 years from the Cathedral's Consecration and establishment of the Cathedral Choir. Interesting to note that the organ was played by Barry Rose while his assistant Gavin Williams (who was never visible to the cameras) was credited with conducting.

STUPIDITY ALERT.......... How does one listen to things on the site??!

[DracoM]

Agreed!! Tried and was repulsed!!

[Petrushka]

STUPIDITY ALERT.......... How does one listen to things on the site??!

Believe me, when it comes to being a technical ignoramus I'm in a league of my own but had no problems with this at all. Dead easy.

http://www.inquiresandplaces.com/

I just clicked on Teamsaints link (copied above) and then clicked on the bars on the left hand side to access loads of stuff. There are various choral recordings, some go back to the early days of the gramophone, at the top and bottom of each web page.

For lovers of church music this is real treasure.