American English

[Alain Maréchal]

Last night I attended the BBC Singers' concert in Knightsbridge, and have just Listened Again. I was struck by the fact that the Singers used American English (eg soft consonants) to sing A Visit From St. Nicholas. I'm not sure what Clement Moore's English sounded like, or that of Ward Swingle of Mobile, Alabama, (although I imagine Ben Parry knows). We expect the Singers to have a good command of Latin, German or French, and I expect it was pretty (pronounced pruddy) authentic.

What do Boarders think about the use of transatlantic pronunciation? Should we be hearing it in, for example, A Sea Symphony? How should choirs pronounce settings of English texts written by Irish or Scottish writers? I have no firm opinion (my own English is accented) but I'm curious to read others'.

There ought to be a side discussion centring on the use of french-accented Latin in Faure, Poulenc or Durufle, but I'm steering clear of that (for the present).

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I wonder whether you could be more specific?

In general, classical singers on both side of the Atlantic use Queen's English, whereas popular singers sing in American or Scouse.

[Alain Maréchal]

In general, classical singers on both side of the Atlantic use Queen's English,.

They may, but since Whitman probably didn't, should they? is my specific question.

[Gabriel Jackson]

Last night I attended the BBC Singers' concert in Knightsbridge, and have just Listened Again. I was struck by the fact that the Singers used American English (eg soft consonants) to sing A Visit From St. Nicholas. I'm not sure what Clement Moore's English sounded like, or that of Ward Swingle of Mobile, Alabama, (although I imagine Ben Parry knows). We expect the Singers to have a good command of Latin, German or French, and I expect it was pretty (pronounce pruddy) authentic.

What do Boarders think about the use of transatlantic pronunciation? Should we be hearing it in, for example, A Sea Symphony? How should choirs pronounce settings of English texts written by Irish or Scottish writers? I have no firm opinion (my own English is accented) but I'm curious to read others'.

There ought to be a side discussion centring on the use of french-accented Latin in Faure, Poulenc or Durufle, but I'm steering clear of that (for the present).

Given that sung pronunciation is different from spoken pronunciation in most languages I think you have to be very careful when it comes to, effectively, mimicking the pronunciation of others. Americans certainly don't sing as they speak. A couple of years ago I was coaching the State Choir Latvija on their English pronunciation for a CD we were doing together and I didn't do a very good job - not being a language coach, and lacking the ability to talk to them about vowels etc. in their own language, all I could do was speak the words to them and ask them to imitate me. But because we don't sing as we speak, the results were not always as successful as I would have liked them to be.

Earlier this year I was working with an American choir on a new piece of mine, and was surprised (and slightly dismayed) to find them being asked to sing a couple of words with English rather than American vowels (the words were by a British person, a Scot). It sounded unnatural to me and I told them I felt that, as they are American, they should sound American, rather than try to sound English because I am.

[Don Petter]

Once upon a time, The Gramophone used to differentiate.

See, for instance, these three entries for Menotti operas in the June 1955 Classical Catalogue:

Ahmal and the Night Visitors (In English) - Schippers
Amelia al Ballo (In Italian) - Sanzogno
The Consul (In American) - Engel

[Gabriel Jackson]

I wonder whether you could be more specific?

In general, classical singers on both side of the Atlantic use Queen's English.

What do you mean?

[MrGongGong]

What do you mean?

I was wondering that as well ?
Is that the English spoken by the Queen
or.......... ?

[Gabriel Jackson]

I was wondering that as well ?
Is that the English spoken by the Queen
or.......... ?

And whichever is meant, it's not correct!

[Padraig]

This man seems to know what he's talking about, if you can understand him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti5u8WU28Nw

[Alain Maréchal]

This man seems to know what he's talking about, if you can understand him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti5u8WU28Nw

But what do you think of his pronunciation of this (American) song?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPXkVf5zdI

[Padraig]

A M, what I can say is that it is a beautiful song, beautifully sung, with every word clear as a bell and in an accent that I don't think would have been unknown in Foster's America, especially in the parlours of pre Civil War society. But I would not be able to comment on individual pronunciations.

[Mary Chambers]

Theoretically, I think the singer(s) should use the accent the composer used to set the words, but that is a lot easier said than done. That's much more important, I'd have thought, than the accent of the writer. What accent did RVW hear in his head when he composed the Sea Symphony? Do we know?

I noticed that in the Met Peter Grimes I saw in the cinema a while ago the singers had been supposedly coached in standard British English - for instance, Grimes (i think it was Anthony Dean Griffey) sang "Ahntie" for " Auntie", which is not natural for an American. It kept slipping, though, and in the end sounded wrong much of the time, and mildly funny.

[Alain Maréchal]

an accent that I don't think would have been unknown in Foster's America.

A good point. There is evidence that many "Old New Yorkers" were becoming concerned at the changes to pronunciation with the waves of Irish and German immigation, but quite what the changes were from I am not sure. What did the Virginian founding fathers sound like, for example? The New Englanders (such as the Adamses) would have sounded different, and it was noted that President Van Buren worked hard to disguise the fact that he spoke Dutch better than he did English.

One cannot be quite sure what British English sounded like in the 19th century, let alone American English.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What do you mean?

OK then, British RP.

[MrGongGong]

popular singers sing in American or Scouse.

hummm ?
Really ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=572kJDIED9g

(they are very popular )