Hereford Cathedral Choir featured on In Tune

[ardcarp]

Geraint Bowen was a guest on In Tune today. I only heard that part of the programme (which I caught by accident) but it's worth a LA. And we get a complete Howells Coll Reg Te Deum and Jubilate. Somebody mentioned on another thread that we don't get to hear the morning canticles very often. This is a typical English cathedral choir (plus Willis) on top form.

The item occurs about 15/20 mins from the start of the programme.

[DracoM]

You didn't mention that terrific Ave Verum!! Slow, bang in tune, no shouting, no me, me, me voices, just fine team singing from one of UK's finest cathedral choirs.

[Magnificat]

They are evidently singing John Browne's Stabat Mater as the anthem at Eensong on 19th March.

Excellent choir though they are I wonder whether they might be making the mistake of doing just a bit too much with the resources they have. Fifteen minutes of this complex music is going to be a tall order for them I think. I admire them for attempting it I must say.

VCC.

[ardcarp]

Draco. Just LA-ed the Ave Verum. Superb.
Magnificat. Don't underestimate them! If EH at NCO can get the kids to feel at home with (and probably to sight read) that sort of stuff, why not Hereford? I'd much rather a choir aimed at something a bit out of the usual run of things than perpetually to wallow in an endless cycle of repeated repertoire. A local cathedral DOM near me (who shall be nameless) said, "I'd love to do Take Him Earth for Cherishing, but I just don't think we could manage it". All I can say is that if you aim a bit higher you'll get better at doing the ordinary things.

[Miles Coverdale]

A quick search of the interweb reveals that they have actually sung it before at evensong in 2007. I seem to recall that it was the subject of a rather favourable piece by Roderic Dunnett in the Church Times. You have to subscribe to the Church Times to read it now, but your favourite search engine should give you the first couple of lines.

[ilikewillis]

I admire them for attempting it I must say.

VCC.

Could you be any more patronising?

[Miles Coverdale]

I would add in passing that they are singing the St Matthew Passion in Holy Week later in the year. For the last few years they have sung the St Matthew in odd-numbered years, and both the Christmas Oratorio and the St John Passion in even-numbered ones. One wonders what they might do if they weren't hampered by such a lack of resources.

[decantor]

My thanks to ardcarp for the heads-up - I caught the Howells canticles live off air, but missed the Ave Verum, the Browne snippet, and the discussion, which were all rewarding. It was good to hear the three cheers for Lay Clerks and chorister parents. But let us not get too exclusively enthusiastic about the Hereford choir. It is, of course a thing of great wonder. But I live more or less equidistant from Hereford, Gloucester, Worcester, and Tewkesbury, and all four foundations deliver equally wondrous music in their slightly different ways. If London and Oxbridge lead the way, other choirs are hot on their heels. Very hot, and nationwide.

It is about time the Eton Choirbook took its place liturgically. Christ Church Oxford has already delivered a worthy CD. The pieces may be long and challenging, but our choral foundations become ever more accomplished, while contemporary choral composers often seek pre-Tallis inspiration. The time is ripe to probe more deeply into the past. I do think we are in the midst of a golden age of liturgical singing, and we - and our choirs - must make the most of it.

[Magnificat]

Could you be any more patronising?

Not at all.

Genuine admiration because it is very difficult music especially for the boys. I wish I could be there to hear them sing it as they have not recorded it and because they are,as I said, an excellent choir and I am sure will do it well.

I just wanted to make the point that there is a danger of any choir being over ambitious and there can be and have been disastrous consequences as a result. I remember NCO collapsing in a piece at Spitalfields Festival for example.

It is often more desirable to sing an easier piece brilliantly rather than a complicated piece not so well. Ardcarp mentioned above "Take Him Earth For Cherishing" - a very difficult to pull off - and I can quite understand the anonymous DoM not wanting to risk it.

There are many excellent choirs of boys and men which would not attempt the Browne piece I'm sure. So bravo Hereford.

VCC

[Nick Armstrong]

Thanks for this! Geraint was a great mate in student days, much music played and listened to together... I've yet to make it to Hereford since he went there, to my shame. I shall have a listen on the iPlayer though

[ardcarp]

there is a danger of any choir being over ambitious

There is always a danger of a choir being under-ambitious. In my lay-clark days (long ago) we had a fine-sounding choir and a very competent DoM (called O&C then) BUT he (who shall also be nameless) relied on a small repeating repertory to get his polished results, especially with the boys. Among the men (and some of the senior boys) there would be an inward groan as the new music list revealed yet another round of Darke in F, Sumsion in G, and so on and so on. IMO the choir would have been better, would have kept its lay clarks longer(!) and have been a greater force for education IF it had been challenged with new and exciting repertory. In the 1970s (when I did a wee bit of research on cathedral music) Alan Wicks (RIP) at Canterbury sustained a huge repertory and the music lists were a delight to behold in their eclecticism.

I also think it is great when the choir is allowed to leave its hallowed portals to make recordings and/or to take part in bigger choral works with orchestras. I know this isn't necessarily what their foundations are set up for (this may be partly why St Barry fell out with St Pauls) but as a widening of horizons and improvement in standards it cannot be equalled.

[DracoM]

In that context, ardcarp, any casual observer of what John Scott is doing in NYC with the St T choir will be simply gobsmacked by the huge variety of repertoire that choir undertakes week in week out. AND succeesds with too.

[Magnificat]

ardcarp, it very much depends on the available resources, competence of the current boys and rehearsal time etc.

Also any choir can do lots of repertoire if the DoM accepts that there will be a learning curve and is not too worried about a first rate performance every time.

The congregation and clergy may not be so accepting as there is nothing worse for someone listening than being on edge all the time if the boys are a bit insecure. Does this do the choir's reputation any good? Choirmasters have to take this into consideration surely. I personally would go for a polished performance every time even if the stuff is relatively easy and even this is not necessarily the case as it depends very much on the charisma and skill of the choirmaster. As we know St Barry could turn base metal in to gold!!

Andrew Lucas at St Albans, for example, has to be very careful how much he asks the boys to do and has to repeat repertoire quite often as did BR. It never ceases to amaze me, however, just what the choir is capable of. Last year, for example I heard stunning performances of "Take Him Earth For Cherishing" and Vaughan Williams's very, very difficult "A Vision of Aeroplanes,"

I very much doubt though whether they would ever have the time to rehearse difficult stuff from the Eton Choirbook as much as I would like to hear it for a change and technically it would be too much for the boys they would be hanging on for dear life and it would show. They have to be realistic and recognise their limitations

Draco,frankly with the resources John Scott has at STNY I would expect him to be able to do lots of different stuff but again it would still depend on the quality of his boys at any one time.

VCC

[DracoM]

" resources John Scott has at STNY I would expect him to be able to do lots of different stuff but again it would still depend on the quality of his boys at any one time."

Erm....it does indeed depend on the quality of the boys, but you know as well as anyone that a DoM has to plan schedules pretty well a year to 6 mths ahead when he / she has no realistic idea of what new singers he/she will have, how the present crop will develop, illness runs, voice breaks. All I am saying is that the breadth and variety of the programmes St T puts on are considerable, but it all comes down to whether JS can school those boys to do the stuff he has scheduled well in advance. I'd say that was sometimes a pretty scary gamble for any DoM.

Not sure what you mean by 'resources' either on reflection?

[Miles Coverdale]

Last year, for example I heard stunning performances of "Take Him Earth For Cherishing" and Vaughan Williams's very, very difficult "A Vision of Aeroplanes,"

I very much doubt though whether they would ever have the time to rehearse difficult stuff from the Eton Choirbook as much as I would like to hear it for a change and technically it would be too much for the boys they would be hanging on for dear life and it would show. They have to be realistic and recognise their limitations

Draco,frankly with the resources John Scott has at STNY I would expect him to be able to do lots of different stuff but again it would still depend on the quality of his boys at any one time.

VCC

One could argue that if they have time to rehearse 'A Vision of Aeroplanes' (which is, as you say, very difficult), then they have time to rehearse something from the Eton Choirbook. It's all a matter of how you choose to spend your rehearsal time. If the boys at St Albans can sing the Howells and Vaughan Williams you mention, then to say that something from the Eton Choirbook would be 'technically too much' for them or that they would be 'hanging on for dear life' is, I think, probably incorrect and in any case a rather large assumption.