CE Merton College, Oxford Wed, 20th Nov 2013

[ardcarp]

Tenebrae

Hi Chris. I'm not going to get involved in a slanging match about gender or wobble. I've done Hymn to St C many times, and on a few occasions have been blessed with an ideal (female) soprano soloist (one of whom I think you know quite well!) I enjoyed CE from Merton very much, but here's my opinion and what's The Forum for if we can't express them?

I've heard Jackson in G sung better.
I've heard Hymn to StC sung better.
Merton choir do not have the polish of Tenebrae.
Schola Cantorum (which may well include some Merton members) was absolutely superb on the recent Bridcut Britten film.

[Chris Watson]

Morning Ardcarp!
I wasn't comparing Merton with any of the pro groups that I could have named, merely saying that the nonsense Draco was on about has been said before, and then gave an example of it by naming one pro London choir and two church choirs that have a lot of the same membership in the back rows.
I thought Merton's performance of the Britten was as joyful a rendition as I've heard in years, and for a student choir to sing that well live on the radio is a great testament to the work Ben and Peter have put in over the years. Yes, there may have been some nerves - I don't know how many of the amateur critics here have sung solos live on the radio before, but believe me even grumpy old pros who've done it a lot get a bit scared and know that it probably sounded a little better in rehearsal, and pointing it out here seems a) unkind and b) stating the bleedin' obvious.
And I still don't understand Draco's point, though at least he has now bothered to write in a little more depth than his first post, which just had the effect of dismissing the whole thing in one lazy sentence. Too well blended = anonymous = bad. Not well blended enough presumably = bad. Maybe someone would like to come up with a blendometer that choir directors can use to make sure that their choir sounds different enough from all the others without being too good or too bad.

[Gabriel Jackson]

One man's meat is another man's poison and there is no compunction about it, but I have to agree with ardcarp. The tessitura in which that solo is pitched and the texture and pitch of the accompaniment beneath it is such that the solo makes its best effect on me when sung by a pure, boyish voice (of either sex), preferably without vibrato - in much the same way that, if I had to register a very similar passage on the organ I would likely choose to play the solo on a clear flute rather than a Cornopean.

I doubt that was Britten's intention, since the piece was written for the BBC Singers!

[ardcarp]

I wonder if I could make a wider point about The Choir Forum (and I suppose the R3 Forum in general, though other 'branches' don't seem to have quite the same problems).

Firstly, there is a fairly wide readership of the Forum, of which only a proportion post regularly.

Of those that do there is a wide variety of people ranging from 'professionals' at one extreme and enthusiastic 'amateurs' (in the French sense...'lovers of') at the other.

It is very hard for professionals (i.e. those currently in the biz) to say anything at all about choirs, directors, soloists,performances, etc, etc, apart from 'wonderful', 'magic'. This is because they may be working with the said, choirs, directors and soloists tomorrow, next week or next year. This is perfectly right, proper and understandable.

The enthusiastic amateurs, on the other hand (and I include myself) 'know what they like' and don't have the same restrictions upon them. The Forum is basically just that, a public forum; not quite a social network site like Facebook, agreed, but one that thrives on opinion and comment. It would be terribly dull were it otherwise. The views of Forum members carry no particular weight or authority and (unless scandalously libellous) can be ignored at liberty.

It is fantastic that we have some well-known 'names' on the site and their membership is highly valued, especially when their arguments are subject-matter based. Personal animosity, on the other hand, creates more heat than light.

[Mary Chambers]

I doubt that was Britten's intention, since the piece was written for the BBC Singers!

I don't think we have any proof that it was written for the BBC Singers, do we? They gave its first performance, certainly, but that's not the same thing.

The poem was written for Britten, and one could certainly argue that to a certain extent it's about him.

[ardcarp]

There is a most obscene version of Auden's words (they do ask for it) much beloved of undergraduates but much too rude to be shared here.

[french frank]

I don't think we have any proof that it was written for the BBC Singers, do we? They gave its first performance, certainly, but that's not the same thing.

The poem was written for Britten, and one could certainly argue that to a certain extent it's about him.

According to Philip Reed in his edition of Peter Pears' Travel Diaries, it was intended for Pears' Elizabethan Singers (citing Mitchell and Reed's edition of Britten, Selected Letters), but wasn't completed in time for the proposed concert.

[Mary Chambers]

There is a most obscene version of Auden's words (they do ask for it):

They do!

[Chris Watson]

Ardcarp - there's definitely no personal animosity intended in my criticism, and I respect very much the opinions of the regular posters, but just very occasionally there is a comment that deserves to be picked up on. Thankfully not very often!

[ardcarp]

pax vobiscum, Chris!

[Gabriel Jackson]

According to Philip Reed in his edition of Peter Pears' Travel Diaries, it was intended for Pears' Elizabethan Singers (citing Mitchell and Reed's edition of Britten, Selected Letters), but wasn't completed in time for the proposed concert.

Which means it was intended for mature adults, which was my original contention.
Surely rather than being about Britten, Auden's poem is adressing him (latterly), through St Cecilia addressing us? I doubt Auden or St Cecilia sang in a pure, child-like voice.

[Finzi4ever]

There is a most obscene version of Auden's words (they do ask for it) much beloved of undergraduates but much too rude to be shared here.

Where might one find such scurrilous ribaldry? It's not for me, you understand....

[ardcarp]

...on the back seat of a coach returning late from some gig.

[french frank]

Changing the subject hastily ...

Which means it was intended for mature adults, which was my original contention.
Surely rather than being about Britten, Auden's poem is adressing him (latterly), through St Cecilia addressing us? I doubt Auden or St Cecilia sang in a pure, child-like voice.

I suppose the options are open. St Cecilia is the vision of a long dead martyr, so a lighter, less substantial voice, even if adult, might be appropriate. Auden wrote the poem: I don't think he necessarily has to be considered the narrator, does he? So it probably boils down to preference and what one is used to. One would simply hope it would be well sung - as it was felt to have been here.

[Gabriel Jackson]

Changing the subject hastily ... I suppose the options are open. St Cecilia is the vision of a long dead martyr, so a lighter, less substantial voice, even if adult, might be appropriate. Auden wrote the poem: I don't think he necessarily has to be considered the narrator, does he? So it probably boils down to preference and what one is used to. One would simply hope it would be well sung - as it was felt to have been here.

I agree that Auden isn't really the narrator, and that the Merton soprano soloist sang well. But if one does particularly want to hear a "pure, boyish voice" (and I have problems with the idea of such a voice not belonging to a boy - why is sounding like a boy something to which girls or women should aspire?!), that can only be a matter of taste: neither the text, nor Britten's intentions (or if not intentions, expectations) give any great authority to that preference.