CE Blackburn Cathedral 2.iii.Xl

[Singer]

I quite agree, Mr Davy - I thought your young cantor did himself and Blackburn proud, and I thought that your Responses were fantastic! I have also enjoyed hearing some of your recent compositions and look forward to even more.

I feel that there are several posters on this message board who have no regard for the people that are actually doing the work. I find the lack of respect for performers, young and old, as well as the BBC staff on this board an absolute disgrace. Not a single person would be performing or producing for the BBC if they were not up to par. Simple. I do also wonder how many of the people who do criticise are actually a part of the Cathedral music tradition - or are they just armchair cowboys, thinking that they could do better. I think what I am trying to say is, think before you write - these are real people, working hard in difficult circumstances. It is VERY easy to criticise, but what do you REALLY know? Close this board, and you'll be doing everyone a HUGE favour.

Well done Blackburn, well done Mr Tanner, Mr Davy, Cantor, Choir, Clergy and the BBC men. I thoroughly enjoyed it!

Singer

[Simon]

I shouldn't bother too much about good old Draco's fence-sitting, James. He's a valued stalwart here, and totally committed to CE and all the traditions thereof, but some of us think he sometimes mishears.

Congrats on the responses from us here anyway - a set I hope we'll hear more of, in time. E minor was a surprise at the beginning, but it worked for us. And congrats too on the Bach. I'm afraid the last couple of pages always beat me...

======

Generally, I thought what an excellent CE this was, a fitting way for Mr T to bow out. I said above that I supposed he knew what he was doing with what seemed at first sight an unusual choice, and he certainly did. They've improved yet more and B/burn can be very proud of its choir, IMO, which on this showing is now firmly in the top half. OK so these weren't just the boys, but on an occasion like this the girls had a right to be involved surely.

Superb diction in the psalms, such as many far more famous establishments should be aiming for. And the fool must surely have got the message today - probably the first time I've jumped when listening to CE! But still not as good a chant for it as I've heard at Southwell...!

Overall, in my opinion, excellent tone, excellent balance, a refreshing, interesting, and harmonically and musically beautiful repertoire from start to finish - including most certainly the anthem - and nothing pretentious at all. (Totally agree though that Dr Jackson's Nunc is on a far higher level than the Mag. Most people seem to think the same.)

Anyway, my bet is that this will turn out to be amongst the best half dozen CEs we'll hear this year. Many thanks to everyone concerned.

And VERY WELL DONE to soloists in the anthem!

S-S!

[french frank]

Two points: It isn't explicitly against House Rules to have more than one identity here but not really approved of to use both on the same thread. Also, if you have a particular personal interest in what you're commenting on, it's appreciated if you do as Mr Davy has done and declare that interest.

Edit: My apologies for inadvertently closing this thread when I logged off last night. Threads are not officially closed without there being a notification and explanation. (It was late and I was just going to bed.)

[ardcarp]

I feel that there are several posters on this message board who have no regard for the people that are actually doing the work. I find the lack of respect for performers, young and old, as well as the BBC staff on this board an absolute disgrace. Not a single person would be performing or producing for the BBC if they were not up to par. Simple. I do also wonder how many of the people who do criticise are actually a part of the Cathedral music tradition - or are they just armchair cowboys, thinking that they could do better. I think what I am trying to say is, think before you write - these are real people, working hard in difficult circumstances. It is VERY easy to criticise, but what do you REALLY know? Close this board, and you'll be doing everyone a HUGE favour.

I think someone has to reply to the above. I think the whole point of these boards is to be able to discuss openly what we hear on R3. Criticism is not necessarily meant as a bad thing....indeed it can be genuinely constructive. It is especially problematic where young people are concerned, and there is certainly no place for rudeness or sheer bigotry, It could be argued that just to say 'everything is always wonderful' is patronising...and after all cathedral and collegiate choirs are aspiring to a professional standard and regrettably have to be judged by that yardstick.

On your point that contributors are just 'armchair cowboys thinking that they could do better' is a bit unfair. It is beside the point that several of us have been invloved in 'the cathedral tradition'. The boards are open to all-comers be they old pros, new pros, amateurs or complete outsiders who just love music.

I agree that we should always be generous in what we say, but that should not mean we cannot listen with a critical ear and comment upon what we hear.

[DracoM]

The singers, particularly the trebles, are the parents of the future by whose good offices the next generation of singers and the prosperity of the cathedral tradition will flourish. A careful examination - and I stress the adjective - of postings over the last winter etc will show that by far the majority of postings are generous in their praise and enoucouragement, particularly of the younger singers, and it is simply inaccurate to categorise this forum as regularly unpleasant or niggardly in their evaluations.

That some posters may not like the music they hear / that DoMs choose is, of course, a totally different issue, and few are jejune enough to dislike a choir because of what they sing, or be insufficiently expert to be able to tell the difference between a fine choir singing music one dislikes from a moderate choir singing either the same repertoire, or even in standard repertoire. Most of the The Choir contributors fully accept the 'Quot Homines' nostrum. In fact, one of the very the great blessings of this forum is the huge resource of knowledge and experience that many bring weekly to their discussions about psalm pointing and the psalter in general, organs and organ playing, biblical scholarship, MS editions, provenance, the evolving histories of different foundations over the years, choir training experience both in UK and abroad, their own singing and playing. It is not a shallow pool of expertise at all.

Lastly, a point that is regularly made by a number of posters week in week out is the quality of sound we hear. Most contributors force majeure have to rely on the BBC transmissions. Some of the evidence that a number of us get both on- and off-board indicate more than a few worries in some quarters about how CEs are set up on the day, even the relevant expertise of the engineers in the field of choir / cathedral work, which can affect how those tx are heard. DoMs rightly become distraught when they hear back what is transmitted, and then repeated on the Sundays, knowing perhaps that what WE hear often bears very little relation to what is heard on site. Distressing all round.

MANY contributors to this forum regularly underline this caveat.

[LJB]

Yo! I find the debate about rudeness on these boards quite interesting. Clearly improvemnets can always be made in any broadcast in every respect (a rule of life in general). Now, the ways in which these might be made I would hazard to suggest are in no way as a result of messages of praise or otherwise on these boards (there may well be a Cathedral that does factor board criticisms into its evaluation but we certainly don't). Which leads me to ask-on an international message board, is it really helpful to read the misguided insinuation of errors (yes it was, don't deny it now...), from a retired teacher purely on first listening of something he had never heard before (possibly Mr Draco has also mastered the inverse art of of sight reading from memory??) before checking a score? In real life such comments would verge on slander I fear, defamation of reputation etc. I don't mean to show any disrespect at all-I am a great fan of Mr Draco and his excellent work for Cathedral Music- only make a fair analysis of the situation.

[ardcarp]

LJB These boards are open to anyone to have their say. They are after all a forum for the airing of views however un-informed they might be. It is unforgiveable deliberately to give offence, but unfortunately offence can be taken from m-boarders who are...well, just airing their views. I think we were described as 'armchair cowboys' (whatever that means) in a previous post. Luckily, nobody has to take the slightest bit of notice of anything anyone says! I think however that the broadcasting of CE, which is a snapshot of a college/cathedral at its best, is a very good thing for musical standards. Inevitably comparisons are made (here. elsewhere, and privately) which can only lead to a striving for higher things. As a student in the 60s, there were (at least) two well-known and well-endowed cathedrals which had absolutely lousy choirs...I mean, really bad. I don't think you would find that situation now. No, I'm not saying which ones!