The Choir - Sunday 10th Nov - 4pm

[jean]

I am not quite sure why people are so keen on competitions.

[Gabriel Jackson]

The BBC has actually hosted Let the peoples sing three times sinxe 2001, more than any other broadcaster/country

[Oldcrofter]

Jean: Most choirs don't enter competitions, but some choral directors may wish to raise the standard of their choir and see this as a way to get their choir known more widely. It can be a motivation and a challenge, they have the views of an adjudicator to consider afterwards and this may in its turn point the way to improving performance.

It can bring a choir together in a different way from regular rehearsals and concerts and can give choirs the motivation to travel further afield, either in this country or abroad.

Success in competitions may stimulate interest locally and increase audiences at concerts - local choir supporters (particularly of youth choirs) are proud of their achievements and participating in festivals is an opportunity for young singers to travel and meet other singers from different parts of their own country and abroad.

In general, "winning" is not the chief motivation, it's the taking part. If the choir wins a section, everyone involved is particularly happy and celebrates. If not, it doesn't matter much - although some may not enter any more competitions and decide it's not for them Just a matter of choice.

But, as I say, most choral directors do not enter competitions and in many areas of choral music (church, cathedral, choral societies, many community and world music groups etc) there is very little if any participation competitively.

Just a matter of choice, really. Some choirs enter once and never again - they or their choral director decide it's just not for them. There are frequently adjudicator-like comments on this board about the choirs in Choral Evensong - don't know if their DoMs bother much about the comments though.

[ardcarp]

I am not quite sure why people are so keen on competitions.

I know what you mean, Jean. There is something about music which ought not to be competitive. But I've seen seen the standards that can be reached by an amateur choir (whether of adults or children) in the hands of an inspiring director and striving to do well in a competition. It is worth it.

Thanks, Oldcrofter, for that full survey of the choral competition scene (post#9). As has been pointed out in subsequent posts, it needs huge commitment musically and financially to enter an international competition, and my point earlier was that it is a shame the BBC cannot somehow encourage and sponsor the process.

Nothing wrong with a bit of cheering! I was really referring to the infantile whooping that goes on in the typical BBC preambles and aftermaths of these things.

One great advantage of the international scene is the broadening of minds and repertoires. There is so much stuff from Scandinavia and the Baltic regions that is wonderful and which is not often even known about over here.

[Oldcrofter]

Fully in agreement with you there, Ardcarp. And I hope that Radio 3 puts together a report/programme worthy of the 2014 World Choir Games. Certainly Scandinavia & the Baltic countries will feature very impressively in Riga, as will Indonesia, South Africa, China and Singapore.

I find China an interesting example: when I was in Bremen for the 2004 World Choir Olympics as they were then called, Chinese accompanists thumped away on the Yamaha grands and choirs were often still singing as if in some militant political drama or opera. That's all changed. They have paid careful attention to adjudicators' comments, listened to how other choirs from around the world shape choral music, add light, shade and colour to their performance in the space of just a few years.

Bremen was also where I saw Affies Boys' Choir from South Africa performing - hadn't heard such powerful boys' voices and such total commitment - multi-cultural and multi-lingual too. Yes, they move around when singing quite often, which won't please the purists here, but it's something that for me fits naturally into their style and South African background.

Here's a couple of examples from concerts: (amateur recordings so sound quality not good)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wkp-bKNzg4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO0nHkoB70Q

English choirs always feel very much at a disadvantage when it come to folksong competitions. They find themselves up against choirs in the most gorgeous national or local costumes, exotic instruments and vigorous movement, and a whose repertoire seems to be so vibrant, so much an essential part of their own culture. Our choirs have to do what they can with sad and sorry tales of maidens led astray by naughty sailors or bold grenadiers, and precious little in the way of an exciting national costume !

[ardcarp]

[Oldcrofter]

Here's the same boys from Affies (Pretoria) just singing for the sheer pleasure of it in a bar somewhere - looks like a couple of their teachers in the background (one playing guitar). I think it shows what a power for friendship and enjoyment singing together brings.

Whether one likes the songs or not is, for me, not the issue - they just obviously enjoy singing these particular Coldplay songs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyEwneHGOJc

[Oldcrofter]

This thread discussed the pros and cons of choral competitions including British involvement in 'Let The Peoples Sing' and international events under the auspices of Interkultur. You may, or may not, be interested to know that new world rankings of choirs have recently been published(http://www.interkultur.com/leftnavi/world-rankings/)

The Mansfield (Notts) girls' choir Cantamus is placed 3rd in the world in the Youth Choirs (the top fifty youth choirs are listed - I think they are the only one from the UK) and 16th in all choir categories (adult, university, chamber etc.)

Whatever the arguments for and against competitions, I think that this is a remarkable achievement and a lasting tribute to their founder and until her death last year, their musical director Pamela Cook.