The Choir - Sunday 10th Nov - 4pm

[ardcarp]

Mary King presents highlights from the climax of 2013 Let the Peoples Sing competition.

My Radio Times has Tim Rhys Evans as presenter, so we'll have to wait and see. CBH yet to take up the reins, obviously.

[subcontrabass]

I see that the programme has been cut to one hour. Is that just a reflection of the lack of success of UK choirs in the competition over recent years?

[Oldcrofter]

Re Subcontrabass - lack of British success in Let The Peoples Sing

The last British choir to win the Let The Peoples Sing Silver Rose Bowl was, I think, Exeter College Choir back in 1979. With two or three noble exceptions, British choirs are scarcely visible in international competitions (except Llangollen). In eight major international events (Interkultur) so far this year (seven in Europe so not very far to travel) I have found only one British choir competing, Cantamus Girls' Choir who won Gold medals in two sections at the Graz (Austria) European Choir Games where choirs from 35 countries were competing.

Cantamus from Mansfield, Nottinghamshire (not exactly a socially privileged area) have, I believe, an unrivalled sequence of success in international competition from 1971 till now (http://www.cantamus.com/achievements.htm). Other youth choirs who have pitted their choral skills on a regular basis internationally are Farnham and Glanaethwy.

I don't know why British choirs are reluctant to enter international competitions, which are an unforgettable, joyous occasions in themselves.

[DracoM]

Quality of the role models in the acclaimed seats of singing? The X-factor tendency? The lure of Youtube instant fame with meretricious material?
The absence of the BBC as a major showcase for the event. If the Beeb does not showcase, then aspiring ensembles do not get to hear what the best are doing. All they hear is what is going on round them. Judges tiring of striving and shouting?

Sure there are more reasons.

[Oldcrofter]

Not sure, Draco, where the "acclaimed seats of singing" are - do you mean cathedrals and music colleges ? And is the "quality" in those acclaimed seats off-putting or encouraging ?

Youtube is entirely international and has a huge variety of choirs performing an equally huge variety of material.

I've never heard any judges "striving and shouting" at local or international choral festivals. They may do so in some televised broadcasts for what is perceived as entertainment value but the overwhelming majority of choirs and choral directors have little if anything in common with those broadcasts. That is not to say that they're not wildly enthusiastic if they happen to win a competition - they are, and good for them.

[Oldcrofter]

There's also Wells Cathedral Choir Choralia who have recently competed at international level.

[subcontrabass]

Quality of the role models in the acclaimed seats of singing? The X-factor tendency? The lure of Youtube instant fame with meretricious material?
The absence of the BBC as a major showcase for the event. If the Beeb does not showcase, then aspiring ensembles do not get to hear what the best are doing. All they hear is what is going on round them. Judges tiring of striving and shouting?

Sure there are more reasons.

It is particularly sad that the BBC no longer gives any prominence to the UK element in the earlier part of the competition. This international competition grew out of an original purely UK competition that used to be featured in a series of programmes each year on the old Network Three. This was one of the few programmes on that network that my late father ever listened to, although his interest was sparked not just by a love of choral singing but also by the presenter being his cousin.

[ardcarp]

I know what Draco means. It would be good if the BBC (whatever happened to Sainsbury's CotY, btw?) were to sponsor and organise a proper, serious nationwide choral competition, leading on to international rounds. But if it did, you know what would happen? I hardly need spell it out...... it would all be razz-ma-tazz, whooping and yelling, half the programmes spent on personal life details, celeb judges (of dubious choral provenance) being high-handed, condescending and rude to contestants...ugh, it makes me shudder.

Do the European choirs who compete enter the competition via national broadcast networks? If not, how is it all publicised and organised?

[Oldcrofter]

To answer some of your questions, Ardcarp, The Sainsbury's sponsorship of Choir of the Year ran from 1984 at 2-yearly intervals until 2004, after which it became the BBC Radio 3 CotY, continued biennially and the next competition should be in 2014. The regulations (for the 2012 event) are set out here:

http://www.choiroftheyear.co.uk/competition.htm

There are four categories - Children, Youth, Adult and Open.

Let the Peoples Sing is organised by the European Broadcasting Union

http://www.ebu.ch/en/radio/competitions/Copy_2_of_2011_ltps_rules_e.php

At the early stages, it seems to be open to any choir wishing to participate (but there are only three categories) - Youth, Adult and Open.

The major umbrella organisation for international competitions is Interkultur. In 2014, there are around 13 major competitions, mostly in Europe, 2 in the USA and 1 in the Philippines. Most of these are organised by individual cities/towns and Interkultur organises regional (e.g. European Choir Games) and the World Choir Games (formerly called the Choir Olympics.)

The 2014 World Choir Games will be held in Riga, Latvia from the 9th to the 19th July. There are nearly 30 categories (for example, Mixed Chamber, Boys', Sacred Music, Barbershop etc.) covering the full range of choral singing. The adjudicators are certainly not of "dubious choral provenance" nor are they ever "high-handed, condescending and rude to contestants". In Graz, Austria in 2008, for example (the last time the World Games were held in Europe) there were 20,000 participants from 93 countries. There will be about 50 adjudicators ("jurors") from 30 or so countries, all of them eminent choral conductors and academics.

One of the adjudicators from the UK is Katie Thomas, whose choral and general musical provenance is far from dubious:

http://katiethomasconductor.com/news/calendar/

In the World Choir Games, there are two levels : 1) the Champions Competition which is for choirs who already have international competitive experience and proven ability in international competitions:
2) the Open Competition in which "Participation is the highest honour." This is open to any amateur choir around the world.

There are, of course, many other festivals and competitions in every country which are also open to choirs from other countries. However, the world rankings of choirs depend on participating in, and achievement in Interkultur competitions, particularly the World, European, regional and Grand Prix events. The system of points and ranking is, as one might expect, complicated and adjusted from time to time.

Yes, there is excitement in the auditoria when results are being announced, just as in any local music festival or competition, and naturally, amongst young and old, competitors and audience, there is some "whooping and yelling" - but if that makes you shudder, well, probably best to stay away.

I think you may even get the odd cheer or two at the Llangollen International Eisteddfod (which, of course, is not an Interkultur event.)

[Stephen Smith]

The 2014 World Choir Games will be held in Riga..... In Graz, Austria in 2008, for example (the last time the World Games were held in Europe) there were 20,000 participants from 93 countries......

I can proudly say that Cantate Youth Choir (Bishops Stortford) won gold and silver medals at Graz, and was the only UK choir to win a gold medal in the finals. (Proud, because my daughters were competitors). If I remember rightly, there were a very large number of choirs from South Africa competing at Graz....

[Oldcrofter]

Yes indeed, Stephen, Gold & Silver in the Mixed Youth Choirs and Musica Sacra sections - I'm sure everyone connected with Cantate was extremely proud, and rightly so. Are Cantate considering entering in 2014 (Riga) ?

I know of only two British choirs who have entered so far (Nidus Children's Choir, Cwmbran & Bradford Catholic Girls' Choir) - and already twelve from South Africa ! I believe about 240 choirs from all around the world have already entered for 2014.

South African choirs such as Stellenbosch Univ., Stellenberg Girls and Affies Boys have been outstanding performers for quite a few years now.

[Stephen Smith]

This was one of the later achievements of the founder director Michael Kibblewhite, who since 2008 has moved abroad. It was quite an undertaking, it seemed to me, to compete at that level. In the way of these things, my children have moved on, and I am no longer so much in touch with Cantate (although we occasionally go to some of their concerts, then and now always enjoyable).

I was going to say I'm not aware of plans to compete, and am glad I checked their website...

Sunday 6 July 2014
WORLD CHOIR GAMES Send Off Concert with Cantate Choir Games Choir
Boys High
Bishop's Stortford

Wednesday 9 July - 13 July 2014
WORLD CHOIR GAMES, Riga LATVIA

http://www.cantate.co.uk/#/calendar/4539671312

[Oldcrofter]

Yes indeed, for any amateur choir it is a huge undertaking - raising funds, booking accommodation and flights to get everyone on the same plane etc. - it's a very long list, and best for a choir to try a festival in this country first a couple of hours away by coach, maybe one night away in a reasonably priced hotel - the experience of being away from home, with one's choir friends, whether an adult or youth choir, is something to remember and build on. It's an experience that will remain with them for ever.

Hope Cantate have an exciting build-up to the Games and a wonderful time while they're in Riga.

[DracoM]

OK, well, I heard the Silver Globe winner and I thought...yes, very nice. Bit repetitive, bit ominous if this is to be what LTPS choirs have to do to win, nevertheless easy on the ear and nicely tuned and disciplined.
BUT
did I miss Mary King or ANYONE saying where this winning choir actually came from?
No info on The Choir homepage.

[DracoM]

What that whole programme shouted to me was where the hell is the BBC in promoting and encouraging the 'Let the Peoples' Sing' movement? One of the biggest broadcasting organisations in Europe if not the world, yet their part in it is a measly 20 minutes or so of clips, plus poor documentation on air /home pages that said nothing in a nation with numerous choirs / schools / groups in many, many towns and cities. Preposterous.

Oh, I forgot, the 'Songs of Praise' school choir thing? And the Radio 2 Chorister of the Year? Right, so that's the box ticked. And when you think of the mania for knockout competitions on BBC TV / radio seems odd to say the least.

Even Mary King sounded embarrassed and wriggling when the one phrase she was not scripted to say was: 'and next year, the BBC will be starting heats for the national UK Let the Peoples Sing' and the winners in the different categories will be going forward to the finals in X-city'.

And THEN she reveals that the judges can SEE the choirs, hence totally changing the competition parameters! Blimey. Even Ms King sounded bemused and despairing.