The Choir - Sunday 20th Oct

[ardcarp]

Mary King marks the contribution made to choral music by women, as performers, conductors and composers, with an interview with composer Meredith Monk about her work with her group Vocal Ensemble, and music including works by Lili Boulanger and Sweet Honey in the Rock.

I have to confess ignorance about most of the above...apart from Lili, Nadia's talented sister who died tragically young. I wonder if we'll hear her settings of Psalms 24 and 130 for choir and orchestra...lovely works which I was privileged to sing in under Nadia's baton many years ago.

[MrGongGong]

Not my usual listening
but Meredith Monk is always worth tuning in for IMV

[DracoM]

Yes, thanks to Verity Sharpe and LJ, Meredith Monk was a bit of a revelation for me some years ago. Could be interesting.

Not quite sure I understand the raison d'etre of the programme, however. When do girls become 'women'? Are they going to do boys one week, and later in the series the over 60's, or men over six feet, or tenors? Surely the clue is in the genre title 'CHORAL' - i.e. the integration of all voices? Tad puzzled.

[jean]

Not quite sure I understand the raison d'etre of the programme, however. When do girls become 'women'? Are they going to do boys one week, and later in the series the over 60's, or men over six feet, or tenors? Surely the clue is in the genre title 'CHORAL' - i.e. the integration of all voices?

Anyone who's read some of the comments on CE threads and elsewhere over the years, not to mention the comments of some high-profile conductors, may well think a bit of balance-redressing might be required.

[DracoM]

Jean

I'm certainly not saying that women have no contribution to make, and I apologise if that is how it came across. I suppose it hangs on what you mean by 'choral': yes, there is of course music and very fine music written for women choruses, as there is for men's choruses. Maybe I was being too blinkered in my supposed definitions?

[ardcarp]

It was certainly unusual for women to be known composers up until the 20th cent and beyond; and this week's CotW made the point that, even in late 19th cent 'liberal' France, a woman performer (Chaminade in this case) was more or less confined to the salon because performing in public was not considered seemly.

I'm quite looking forward to this programme (though it will have to join my LA queue) if only to find out about Meredith Monk!

[ardcarp]

On the male/female thing, there was nagging at the back of my mind the opening chapter of a book, The Artless Musician, by Sidney Harrison. It is headed, 'How to be born' and it begins:

Be a man.
You can be a ladies' man, a lady-man, a manly-man,or a super-man, but do not be a woman unless you have a golden voice.
In the world of song, no IIsolde can argue that it is the Tristans who get all the best engagements. Elsewhere a woman must face the fact that she will never be conductor of the opera, director of a royal college or Mistress of the Queen's Musick.
Having decided to be born male....[and so it goes on]

Sidney Harrison was a great wit and one needs to read with irony mode in operation, but the fact that this had to be said in 1964 is worrying.

Great book, incidentally. Having just dug it out and dusted it off, I'm about to enjoy a re-read.

[jean]

...if only to find out about Meredith Monk!

I didn't find what I heard very interesting to listen to.

I also have some resistence to people who tell me that there's a 'natural' voice they've discovered that's obscured by all this choir training.

I am strangely reminded of the girl/boy voice thing....

[DracoM]

Jean

Reluctantly I have to agree. MM's chat was awful, as if she was reinventing the wheel and didn't want to hear that it had already been done. She has clearly cast herself, and others of her 'disciples' have cast her as being rather like that revered guru, the long white haired woman figure in the Jane Campion TV series recently 'Top of the Lake'.

Her music OTOH had some merits, and sounded rather jolly done by pros, if somewhat over-long and repetitive. But back in the 60s we had Stimmung, whihc made MM sound a bit tame.

The most interesting feature was Sweet Honey in The Rock. The departure of Bernise Johnson Reagon changed their sound, made it less gravelly, maybe a little less improvisatory and ecstatic IMO, but this was exciting singing by anyone's measure. I have several of their CDs, and in concert they are simply sensational. If you get a chance, do see them on Youtube to get the flavour of their charismatic presence, and fantastic harmonies and rhythms. The actually deserve a programme to themselves.

[MrGongGong]

Jean

Reluctantly I have to agree. MM's chat was awful, as if she was reinventing the wheel and didn't want to hear that it had already been done. She has clearly cast herself, and others of her 'disciples' have cast her as being rather like that revered guru, the long white haired woman figure in the Jane Campion TV series recently 'Top of the Lake'.

Her music OTOH had some merits, and sounded rather jolly done by pros, if somewhat over-long and repetitive. But back in the 60s we had Stimmung, whihc made MM sound a bit tame.

I have yet to hear this interview but interesting that you make the comparison with Stimmung which to me now does sound very tame and a bit naive (compare the overtone singing to Huun Huur Tu or even David Hykes ?)
Having heard Meredith Monk several times in the 1980's I thought she was really powerful but i'm not convinced by her work being done by "pros" , Facing North which was a series of duets with Robert Een was a great experience...... (she's also very good in David Byrnes True Stories).

[ardcarp]

Well, I unreservedly enjoyed the programme. Ms Monk's stuff is indeed of the repetitive, ostinato variety, but taking it for what it is, there's plenty of esprit. I think her group really needs to be seen as well as heard for full impact. Lovely performance of Vivaldi's Magnificat in G by the Taverner Choir's SSA.

[DracoM]

Agreed - what a bouncy, muscular Vivaldi perf!!

Did no-one like Sweet Honey in the Rock?

[jean]

Yes, great stuff - I was going to say that someone had already posted about them, but I see that it was you!