CE Chapel of King's College, Cambridge [archive] Wed, 23rd Oct

[DracoM]

Aha! Why then did the duty CA not explain that after the service? Too early in the morning for the cleft stick to have arrived at BH?

And ahem.....actually, with respect, the rest of the service was not entirely unaffected, but clearly the man at the wheel did a far more than decent job in keeping the show on the road.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

[ardcarp]

My worst fears about computers confirmed (post #30). Good job they don't fly Jumbo J.....oh damn, they do. What's wrong with a mike, a cable and Fred twiddling the knobs?

[DracoM]

Anyway, back to the business in hand................

This service so much of its time!

Psalms delectable in shaping, and fastidious in delivery, nicely idiosyncratically KCC in terms of rhythms and their way with the metre. Clarity of diction and tight discipline compelling. The whole singing team knew well how to negotiate the acoustic and they let their sound soar and mix into it. And how nice NOT to have over-striving back rows muscling their way operatically / soloistically through the front desks - may have something to do with mic placement of course - but the boys [was boys singing the top line, wasn't it?] were allowed to relax into full voice yet sounding unforced.

NO travelogue, unhurried, and finishing with a terrific [to my untutored ears] Bach voluntary, full of colour and energy.

Why does no-one ever clap?

Fascinated to hear other posters take on this service.

[Nick Armstrong]

Fascinated to hear other posters take on this service.

I was able to hear it today - for me, this is the absolute example of English choral singing - it has all the things I love and none of the things I dislike, in every aspect of the choir's delivery. Kings under Ledger was just about as good as it gets, for me.

(Not surprising that Gerald Finley - pretty sure he was in the choir by then - Christopher Purves etc all went on to do such great things. And John Butt of course!)

This service so much of its time!

I was intrigued by this Draco - the singing struck me as timeless. Were you thinking about the rather po-faced posh speaking delivery of the Dean (or similar)?

[DracoM]

Not so much the clergy, as some of the vowels in the choir. Loved all that!

[Magnificat]

Anyway, back to the business in hand................
Why does no-one ever clap?

Draco,

I was at an evensong in St Albans Abbey once when a young lady in front of me did just that at the end of the anthem while her red - faced male companion tried desperately to stop her.

The lay clerks were killing themselves laughing.

VCC.

[Simon Biazeck]

Dem bones, dem bones, dem... dry bones! Yes, a time warp, and strangely comforting in some ways but hardly engaging; soporific liturgical wallpaper. After a while one just drifted off, only mildly irritated by the mannered phrasing and over-punctilious attention to dynamics and consonants. I can take a lot of this style of choral singing for what it is, but the lack of real line, vocal colour and emotion (and no, I'm not advocating operatic belting!) bespeaks a squandering of resources - there is a fine choir in there somewhere! Nice tuning though! If what I could hear of the back row was an indication of their latent ability, they were even more buttoned up than the bland piping from the boys. It's not what I call choral singing, but I'm sure some will love it and pine with nostalgia for the days of yore.

Compare this with Ord's choir in the Howells Coll. Reg. Mag. - no comparison!

[Simon Biazeck]

Why does no-one ever clap?

They applaud voluntaries in France, but that's probably because the choral singing is so bad they are glad it's all over. No, not really!

[ardcarp]

It was 'of its time' for me too. Lovely unforced head voices, unanimity of vowel sounds (modern kids strive to do a decent ooh or an aah) and the ability to sing notes throughout the range without 'changing gear'. I think maybe Chichester under Thurlow was the last place to carry on singing like this.

This is not to say I dislike more recent trends; more gritty, often more oomph. Britten rather disliked 'the cathedral hoot' and preferred more natural and colourful boys' singing,

But today's archive CE was a lovely trip down memory lane...subtly different from the Kings of Willcocks' day, but in the same tradition. Incidentally, I thought the Our Father from the Rose responses, taken at that slow speed, was most effective as it avoided all those snatched phrase ends which can so easily happen. Also, how polished and restrained was the men's entry 'Come. quickly come' in OTTCO. Not the fat bulls of Basan bellowing it out as one sometimes hears.

[DracoM]

Yup, it's certainly not what I'd want every week at all, but it offered a window into another way of looking. And as Simon above says, the tuning was almost fussily correct!!

[mw963]

Just a quick return to the problems at Hereford....

I only heard the last ten minutes of the broadcast, and like Roger and others I noticed the constant and extreme level (and acoustic) changes.

But I somehow doubt they had much to do with the major problems attributed to the OB computer (which as I say I didn't hear) at the start.

One has to remember that Radio 4 - whichever version one listens to, be it DSat, Freeview, DAB , FM or indeed LW - is subjected to vicious (it's the only word) dynamics compression. Whereas in the case of Radio 3 the DSat/DAB/Freeview versions are all uncompressed; only FM has some processing.

Sunday Worship often DOES sound terrible, but that's through no fault of the OB engineers. It's all because of the ongoing "virility" competition that dictates to those who know no better that they must be "the loudest on the dial", and which leads to the presence of a "dumb" brown box that makes everything as loud as possible, then additionally knocks it back if it's too loud..... Pretty disastrous on any music, but particularly on choral music.

What is frustrating is that Radio 4 no longer leave DSat and Freeview to sound "as they should" - this benign state of affairs was abandoned in 2006 when all the digital outlets of Radio 4 became subject to processing; prior to that it was only FM and LW.

One of the "excuses" peddled by the proponents of audio processing is that it helps audibility in a noisy environment. What they conveniently forget is that DSat and Freeview are pretty much "fixed" listening methods, one version needs a satellite dish and the other a TV aerial - the latter normally on the roof. By definition therefore these systems are mostly installed in living rooms, and hence likely to be the "best" listening environment that most people have. So it's common sense NOT to compress these versions of radio, but no amount of explaining of this fact seems to get through to management, who are convinced that if their programmes are quieter than the others then people will stop listening.....

[Nick Armstrong]

Dem bones, dem bones, dem... dry bones! Yes, a time warp, and strangely comforting in some ways but hardly engaging; soporific liturgical wallpaper. After a while one just drifted off, only mildly irritated by the mannered phrasing and over-punctilious attention to dynamics and consonants. I can take a lot of this style of choral singing for what it is, but the lack of real line, vocal colour and emotion (and no, I'm not advocating operatic belting!) bespeaks a squandering of resources - there is a fine choir in there somewhere! Nice tuning though! If what I could hear of the back row was an indication of their latent ability, they were even more buttoned up than the bland piping from the boys. It's not what I call choral singing, but I'm sure some will love it and pine with nostalgia for the days of yore.

How different people's ears are.

I just like it!

They applaud voluntaries in France, but that's probably because the choral singing is so bad they are glad it's all over. No, not really!

[DracoM]

Ref: Hereford:
Phew- so it wasn't only to my ears! Many thanks for technical clarification.

Back to KCC

Simon: I think that's just a tad brusque! It's very interesting - and I wonder why - that for many decades that sound has been thought in many places in UK, let alone globally, to be the echt sound of Anglican choral excellence. I think that is almost certainly why they get the Christmas coverage they do to this day, even though in fact the KCC sound has certainly changed. To the global audience, comprising too that big ex-pat audience, and to those who listen only at Christmas, KCC is THE sound of the season.

Likewise, when George Guest conducted St J's many choirs with those sepulchral basses and urgent, plangent trebles, that sound was lodged in the imagination as right for Advent - hence their Advent Carol Service. And again, it's not how the choir sounds now at all.

I suppose it's the BBC sort of branding the seasons musically?

[Simon Biazeck]

Simon: I think that's just a tad brusque!

Pot... kettle... black! I thought I was being quite measured, but there you go! I don't mean to make it sound like I'm offended, or that it's some sort of moral issue, but for me it does represent a lot of what's wrong with choral singing... still (Sorry Caliban!!) - all the components, tuning, ensemble, dynamics, diction and not much else - just the conduits exposed. I won't go on!

Guest's St J's anytime of the year - now you're talking!

[Simon Biazeck]

How different people's ears are.

I just like it!

Good for you - don't mind me! I'm glad you enjoyed it!