The Choir - Science and Singing - Sunday at 4pm

[ardcarp]

Mary King - Science and Singing
Mary King introduces a selection of choral music and talks to conductor Andrew Carwood.

New Sunday schedule folks. I was tickled by Andrew McG's comment this morning. After a particularly gruesome trail in the middle of CD Review, he commented that 'the only thing new on this programme is the CDs'. I think he's one of us. And that excellent programme Words and Music still hasn't been returned to a late evening slot where it clearly belongs.

[decantor]

Well, it seems I was the sole listener - and then more out of habit than keen anticipation. I claim no great experience or expertise in matters choral, but it does seem that the producers of choir programmes take all too seriously their responsibility to those who have their foot on only the first rung of the choral ladder: all is reduced to basics. Then again, the actual music on offer was well worth hearing: a Finnish choir, awesome Ligeti, and more......

Andrew Carwood did have one or two interesting things to say about concert programming and audience inclusion, but he must surely be heartily tired of explaining his rationale for the formation of Cardinall's Musick. I for one regretted that any mention of his day job was ruled out of court, but I suppose it didn't fit the celebratory template.

The much-heralded "Science" element was curious - at once intriguing and self-evident. It hinged on the "cocktail party" concept - to what extent can the human ear discern multiple threads of chatter? The answer seemed to be - not much. Choral polyphony might thus be represented as a waste of time, since few words (let alone phrases or meanings) can be detected by the listener. Is this really a surprise, and does it matter anyway? If an artist were asked to paint the Te Deum, would he include the text on his canvas? So shouldn't a composer 'paint' the Te Deum in musical terms, being honest to the text, not by making the words discernible, but by delivering his aural picture of their import? And where was Palestrina? In sum, I wondered what the thrust of this 'science' was intended to achieve.

If only someone else had listened and could explain the mystery to me!

[DracoM]

Well, get back to you on the programme, but early on for a kick-off that is the THIRD time in seven days we've had a choir singing 'How lovely are thy etc etc...' on R3. Why? And as you say "tell us why you founded the Cardinall's Musicke? - AGAIN" -how about " because I needed a job, lots of exigent pro singers in London who wanted a job, Renaissance polyphony always gets the punters in, so...why not'? No, he's too much of a gentleman to do that, but I really do wish that had been what he'd answered. He must be so close to snapping that out one day.

And who's 'breaking new ground' in asking why people can't hear words even in English when sung by choirs? Sorry, practically every audience member I have ever talked to over decades of listening / singing all asking exactly the same question. And presumably those Edward Wickham pieces were designed to be mega laughs or what? Did they answer any of the questions? Did they attempt to? Was there any engagement on the intellectual / analytic levels? Not that I heard.

Yes, the one high point was the Finnish stuff, AND as you say, decantor, the Ligeti. Which said more about music and choral texture acuity than almost anything else in the programme.

Yes, Mary, BUT HOW does Britten make it 'chilly'? Keys? Mis-matching of voices etc? Vowel sounds? Length of notes? Dissonances? Great opportunity to do some analytic explanation for the newly arrived eager The Choir listener wanting to learn more...........but not getting it.

Look, it's dead easy to play tracks and enthuse. It's what the Essential Classics team do every damn day, gush and play, gush and play, gush and play. Is that all R3 is now?


NB: You can tell by my rage that I've been trying to pick my way through the exasperating nothingness that is now R3 and its Cinema Season. Has THAT three weeks been a huge, huge mistake or what?!!

[decantor]

Look, it's dead easy to play tracks and enthuse. It's what the Essential Classics team do every damn day, gush and play, gush and play, gush and play. Is that all R3 is now?

NB: You can tell by my rage that I've been trying to pick my way through the exasperating nothingness that is now R3 and its Cinema Season. Has THAT three weeks been a huge, huge mistake or what?!!

Draco, why oh why did you wait for my feeble post about The Choir before sounding off? But, to answer your questions.....

"Gush and Play" has been the format for some time now. Temper your expectations to that rule - as also to the rule that 10% of air-time is now devoted to trails of things to come. Trails are now a significant part of the 'entertainment'.

The Cinema Season has clearly been a softening-up exercise. Henceforth, Ray Conniff and Julie Andrews will strut the stage while Beethoven and Bach will have walk-on parts as a sop to unwanted high-brows. There is still an R3, but not as we know it. Find your off-switch, and seek a decent internet station. For the most part the BBC has abandoned us.

Against that background, The Choir was not so bad.

[DracoM]

What I really find difficult to take is when known, respected experts who have serious and maybe revelatory comments / analyses, explanations of subject in hand, deliberately dumb down their expertise following the R3 channel mantras as Mary King and Andrew Carwood were made to, and simply become guest spots with DJs. We/they are being suckered into mediocrity and /or cooed into remaining ignorant but happy to let it all wash over - a bit like a R2 or CFM demographic.

The ostensible subject of that programme was science and music plus why audiences can't hear the words etc. The 'science' was not explained merely exclaimed over, "illustrated" by jokey tracks by the Wickham group. Nothing was explained or explored.

Then we hear Ligeti: his fantastically acute alertness to sound, texture, and a tribute to phenomenal musicianship by the Clare Ch and Tim Brown's control of dynamic, his sensitivity to pure choral values and the craft of a really good choir. Cue an explanation why it doesn't matter why and particularly HOW Ligeti's' words despite not being heard evoke through pure choral textures a sense of the eternal. Why did not the aural scientists producers / Mary King ordered up not spend some time analysing that?

Time and again, hungry for analysis and meaning, I watch / listen to R3 simply frittering away the expertise of professionals, the boundless, mind-expanding material in guff and gush, and that apparently passes for informed and innovative radio, does it?

The long term damage to the credibility, uniqueness and thus defendability of R3 has been massively accelerated by the RW Regime. That the Trust has been so distracted or deceived into accepting the PR-speak crap used by RW and his minions to justify what is happening to R3 is the tarnishing of an already not very distinguished group's reputation. And the losers are the audience. They say they want to engage the new listener and all they do is use expertise as DJs and that's it. No development, no enlightenment, no leading an audience into new fields of wonder, just gush and guff. It truly upsets me. And that The Choir programme was exactly that. Huge potential, real let-down in terms of total impact.

And decantor, can I say that 75% of my classical music listening is indeed to internet stations other than R3, a huge change in my listening habits as I restlessly try to find stations that make me think and reflect, instead of merely admiring the wallpaper.

[ardcarp]

I really ought to be sent to the naughty chair, because I have not done my duty and listened to The Choir yet. It sounds as if it might be more a duty than a pleasure, but listen I will. Just give me time......