CE Hereford Cathedral Sept 18th 2013

[Finzi4ever]

Whole-heartedly agree with RJ on his take on the service, plus two great hymn tunes. While I too was impressed with the Dvorak performance, it still wrankles as an evensong voluntary - better suited as a concert piece. The Sumsion Mag. fair bounced along and I think works better at that speed than the rather more laid-back version we often hear: this had real vitality (eg the duplets); great registration throughout too. Does the Very Revd Michael Tavinor (another Ely connection) no longer cant? Shame!

But that first, long prayer and its delivery: "we rejoice at your wreckless and extravagant love scattered among us & found in the mud and thorns of life." OK, just me then!

[Roger Judd]

When I was at St Michael's College, Tenbury (1973-85), Sumsion was a Fellow of the College, and used to appear at the Michaelmas festivities in my early days there, and I recall him bemoaning the laboured speed that many adopted for the Mag in G. Nerdy moment coming up ... I've just checked both my copy and my metronome, and Geraint Bowen was within a gnat's whisker of the dotted minim = 50 prescribed - and the piece trips along, one-in-a-bar, most engagingly as a result. The Hereford Willis was a perfect vehicle for all the music in the service, and colourfully used to great effect too.
I can't answer the question about Michael Tavinor cantoring the service authoritatively.
RJ

[mercia]

sorry to be off-topic again (like most of the thread)

http://www.stevesclassiccars.com/images/Bosendorfer-7-23-02-2.jpg

http://www.stevesclassiccars.com/bosendorfer_imperial_concert_gra.htm

[ardcarp]

How very wry, Finzi, with your wreckless wranckling!

[Miles Coverdale]

I'd be interested to see the references - not because I don't believe they exist, just because I've never seen them.

One might have thought that such an animus against Latin would have hastened the arrival of other languages/subjects to be studied at schools and universities - but it didn't, did it?

Here's an excerpt from The Huntyng and Fynding Out of the Romish Fox by William Turner (1543):

‘… the Pope willeth and commandeth, in all places where he hath domination, that all Psalms and all masses shall be said and sung in his old mother Latin tongue, though the people understand never one word of the Latin tongue; yet this doth he, as a token, that the people, hearing the Romish tongue, which is Latin, should acknowledge themselves to be under the see of Rome.’

There are many other polemical tracts in a similar vein. You can read the whole of the Turner here. I'd also recommend David Daniell's The Bible in English.

Although Latin was the language of the Catholic Church, it was also the language of antiquity and of scholarship in general. Had it been a language of religion only, it may well have died out, I think.

One of the main points of the Reformation was, of course, that the language used in religious ceremonies should be the vernacular, not Latin. The Church was very much against this, not least because if the general population had access to Scripture in their own language, they would find out that many Church practices were non-Biblical. If the Church could control (very much the operative word here) people's access to and interpretation of Scripture, they could control what they knew and, to a large extent, what they thought.

[Miles Coverdale]

But that first, long prayer and its delivery: "we rejoice at your reckless and extravagant love scattered among us and found in the mud and thorns of life." OK, just me then!

I think that must have come from here.

[jean]

He's not even an Anglican!

[Miles Coverdale]

He's not even an Anglican!

Oh dear, what is the world coming to? Seriously, though, does that matter?

[chitreb]

One of the joys of CE coming from different places each week is a sense of place. The acoustics can be quite different, the local population may speak with a regional accent and the history of the place can add something to the listener's appreciation of the service. Not everyone listening will have been to Ely or Hereford or necessarily have access to web images or information. A short introduction to set the scene beyond just "Oh Lord open thou our lips" is to be welcomed, at least by some of us. Knowing that last week the Ely choir were singing under the Octagon may explain why I thought the balance between choir and organ didn't always sound quite right to my ears - there was a bit in the psalms where I thought the sounds seemed to be a little muddied together.

As to the Hereford service, I found it enjoyable and well sung (and played) and the variety of composers and styles took nothing away from my appreciation.

[ardcarp]

Splendid, Chitreb. I do wish more people who simply enjoyed the whole thing would post in and say so! Otherwise we carpers and moaners tend to get the upper hand.

[Finzi4ever]

ouch! - apologies for the (w)reckless spelling which still (w)rankles! - shurely shom kind of wrotary wengine?

[ardcarp]

Naughty, naughty....

[W.Kearns]

Really enjoyed the Brahms - Dvorak also. Thanks, Finzi4ever, for your lucid observations in post 38. I'm no theologian, but surely prayer isn't about telling God how to go about His work - ?