Choral Vespers from LEEDS Cathedral June 12th 2013

[ardcarp]

...and it looks as if they're doing the psalms with Anglican chant

Ah well, not as we know it perhaps! My mistake.
An enthusiastic top line.
The Karg Elert turned into an interesting surprise at the end. Had the vocal quartet drawn from 'members of the choir' also been singing in the service?

[DracoM]

Agreed - what an odd ending!

Warm, no-nonsense singing, enthusiastic top line, responsive shaping of phrases.

Thanks a lot, Leeds.

[Mr Stoat]

I recall from somewhere that round "Hosts" came into being to resemble coins presented at the offertory, as a symbolic "giving back" of himself by God in return for the peoples' gifts of money... May be wrong....

[jean]

Never thought about that.

Someone else did, though - here's an attempt at an answer:

http://www.cpats.org/_webpostings/Answers/2010_01JAN/2010JanWhyIsTheHostCircular.cfm

[DracoM]

If it's any help, in the various bread-makers' shops / stalls etc I've seen in numbers of Jewish/Arab influenced cities in the Middle East, many breads are made in different thicknesses but many, many of them are round or roughly round. FWIW, my guess would be that when the disciples went out to buy bread for the supper, they would have come back with them round or roughly, because that was they way it was. Their geometric symbolism etc I would hazard has accreted over centuries from local custom and availability.

[Philip]

Indeed. Just trying to wonder aloud why the two operations namely money collecting and sacred rituals were somewhat uncomfortably partnered. Or maybe I'm being a tad squeamish?

These are personal thoughts, not founded on any major theological basis!

There is quite a useful Wikipedia article on the Offertory, stating it comes from the Latin 'offertorium' and is concerned with the presentation of the bread and wine, but that the offering of alms/money may also coincide with this. I guess the point of marrying the two is to link our own offerings in the collection with sacred offerings - the act of giving back to the church. The BCP has introductory sentences at this point ('Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works') and in Common Worship the prayer 'All things come from you, and of your own do we give you' perhaps reflect something of this. Call it semantics if you like, but you could make a distinction between the 'Offertory' (presentation of bread and wine) and 'Offering' (collection). I suppose therefore it is true to say that calling a hymn in a non-Eucharistic service an 'Offertory Hymn' is incorrect, and that is should just be a 'Collection Hymn' or such like, but then the BCP never prescribed for any kind of collection at Evensong anyway - it doesn't for a sermon, either.

[mopsus]

I think Leeds Cathedral has quite an extensive musical establishment, so perhaps the singers in the final voluntary came from its mixed-voice adult choir, so as to give that choir a part in the service? A nice gesture if so.

I don't know when the Frisina piece that opened the service was written, but it struck me as being part of the 'new wave' of music for the RC Church, aiming to produce something more inspired than a lot of the post-Vatican II material. I've heard examples of this style at, for example, the Duomo in Milan.

The psalms weren't Anglican in style (no reason why they should have been) but I thought they flowed very well.

[ardcarp]

it doesn't for a sermon, either.

Yay!!!