The Choir out & about in Cambridge with Mr Rutter hisself!

[Guest]

Well, clearly I was going to have a problem with this. Not only do we have a CE bias towards Oxbridge throughout the year, we now have a Cambridge-groupie-fest.

It started out with JR and Mr Cleobury, in a spirit of mutual reverence, which had me wondering how much I could stand, But as usual, the music came through and persuaded me to stay tuned. I'm glad I did - the Howells Glos Nunc is always worth a listen, though I've heard better versions. A young Chilcott's Pie Jesu was nice; and very, very smoooooth, not to say muffled, which means I'd be interested to get some information about the engineering

We've just had an interview with Selwyn's leader, followed by some warbled piece by Weir, which I've now, fortunately, forgotten, and now Trinity are in on the act, with Handel and orchestra - good stuff, this!

Now we've got Mr Nethsinga, who has just mentioned that John's has made about 100 recordings. Wow! I wonder how many Gloucester, Wells, Truro and Canterbury have made...

I'm hoping to hear the rest, and I think anyone who is interested in choral music would enjoy most of it.

Perhaps there will be time for more comment later, but I'd just like to mention the following: the Selwyn choir went to the USA last year on tour. I'm glad for them, and I hope they enjoyed it. But how many choirs can even dream of this? So I do hope, in the interest of fairness, that if the wealthy and well-connected Cambridge choirs get any money for this broadcast, they will donate it, perhaps via FOCM, to be used to help kids in the less privileged and less wealthy foundations, like Jesus College have done in India. After all, there are at least a dozen places around the country that can sing just as well as, if not better than, any choir at Cambridge, but which aren't as cosy with the BBC and/or the great and the good in the music industry.

And here's Purcell - magical stuff.

And now we have Jesus college actually talking about India. This was set up by the college, fundraised by the college students & friends, and specifically aimed at helping underprivileged kids in India. Superb stuff, not a bit snobby and a fantastic thing to do! Would that there were more like this... but JC is a great college, for many reasons, not least the kids in its its all male choir.

[DracoM]

And I did a serious double-take when Michael White asserted that 'nowhere in the world' is there better singing than Cambridge.
Oh, really?
Well, if we are talking traditional collegiate type choirs like John's or King's or NCO, how about St Thomas, Fifth Avenue, New York, under the direction of Dr John Scott, boy-led, excellent men's voices, and top quality choir from a choir school, who, unlike every Oxbridge choir, webcast EVERY service they sing. And actually not all that close to Cambridge - which the programme seemed to suggest was the centre of the choral universe.
And a few German choirs we might name? e.g. Regensburg Domspatzen? Or Catalonia - L'Escalonia Monserrat?

Yes, indeed, there is certainly MORE excellent collegiate type-singing per square foot in Oxbridge, I grant that, but..............pretty sweeping generalisation, Mr White..

[Gabriel Jackson]

And I did a serious double-take when Michael White asserted that 'nowhere in the world' is there better singing than Cambridge.
Oh, really?
Well, if we are talking traditional collegiate type choirs like John's or King's or NCO, how about St Thomas, Fifth Avenue, New York, under the direction of Dr John Scott, boy-led, excellent men's voices, and top quality choir from a choir school, who, unlike every Oxbridge choir, webcast EVERY service they sing. And actually not all that close to Cambridge - which the programme seemed to suggest was the centre of the choral universe.
And a few German choirs we might name? e.g. Regensburg Domspatzen? Or Catalonia - L'Escalonia Monserrat?

Yes, indeed, there is certainly MORE excellent collegiate type-singing per square foot in Oxbridge, I grant that, but..............pretty sweeping generalisation, Mr White..

Cambridge is surely unique in the concentration and sheer number of very good choirs, which must be what he meant.

[Gabriel Jackson]

Well, clearly I was going to have a problem with this. Not only do we have a CE bias towards Oxbridge throughout the year, we now have a Cambridge-groupie-fest.

Rest assured, Simon, that when I present The Choir in a couple of weeks there won't be an Oxbridge choir in sight (or sound!). Lots of very good music though, and some fantastic singing...

[DracoM]

< Cambridge is surely unique in the concentration and sheer number of very good choirs, which must be what he meant >

Erm.............as the last line of my posting pretty well acknowledged, I think?

[Gabriel Jackson]

< Cambridge is surely unique in the concentration and sheer number of very good choirs, which must be what he meant >

Erm.............as the last line of my posting pretty well acknowledged, I think?

In that case it wasn't "a sweeping generalisation" was it?

[Wolsey]

Not only do we have a CE bias towards Oxbridge throughout the year, we now have a Cambridge-groupie-fest.

Seven Oxbridge choirs broadcast Choral Evensong in 2011: New; King's; St John's; Sidney Sussex; Magdalen; Merton; Caius. Seven broadcast in 2012: King's; Keble; St John's; New; Magdalen; The Queen's; Clare. Christ Church Cathedral also broadcast in 2012. Is this really "CE bias towards Oxbridge throughout the year?" What is really notable about these lists is the inclusion of choirs whom one has hardly ever - or ever - heard on CE before.

[...] A young Chilcott's Pie Jesu was nice; and very, very smoooooth, not to say muffled, which means I'd be interested to get some information about the engineering.

This 1967 recording was remastered in 2007 in EMI’s Great Recordings of the Century series where the sound is considerably improved. We probably heard a pressing which predates this.

[...]Now we've got Mr Nethsinga, who has just mentioned that John's has made about 100 recordings. Wow! I wonder how many Gloucester, Wells, Truro and Canterbury have made...

Well, 100 or so recordings since its first one in 1958 is a good achievement. And your point is? Incidentally, Mr A Nethsingha previously directed two of the choirs you've mentioned, and worked with a third as Assistant Organist...

And I did a serious double-take when Michael White asserted that 'nowhere in the world' is there better singing than Cambridge.

While he did generalise, I fear you may have missed the point he was making. What Michael White, in fact, said was, “The achievement of our Anglican liturgical choral singing [my italics] I think is, as I say, the very best of us, and it’s certainly the best that you will find anywhere in the world. I go all over the place and I hear choirs in Germany, in Italy, in America, in France; none of them have got what we’ve got. And I think it’s extraordinary that, on an average weekday, you can wander into a cathedral church or a foundation like Westminster Abbey or King’s, Cambridge without paying anything for admission, you can hear a choral evensong and you can hear something that is absolute perfection [...] And why do we have this? We have this because of the Oxbridge choral tradition...”

[Nick Armstrong]

JC is a great college, for many reasons

I was going to argue with some of the things you said but all is forgotten in the light of the above shrewd judgement!

Anyway, Wolsey's had a bit of a go already...

[amateur51]

I was going to argue with some of the things you said but all is forgotten in the light of the above shrewd judgement!

Anyway, Wolsey's had a bit of a go already...

A bit of a go? That's like calling a John Jameson century before lunch a bit of a go.


Bravo Wolsey

[DracoM]

Well, Wolsey, with respect, I still maintain and will continue to do so, that under John Scott, St Thomas Fifth Avenue NYC rivals any of the ensembles mentioned, and is one of the very, very best men and boys choir singing Anglican liturgy anywhere - five or six times a week all transmitted live via webcast, interspersed by finel;y nuanced men-only services and many fantastic concerts.

They are IMO the real deal. And I can tell you that hearing them live on site is better.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

hisself

[ardcarp]

I really don't see any need for a pro-/anti-Oxbridge slanging match. I think we can all appreciate and celebrate excellence wherever we find it. Oxbridge has been, and is, a breeding ground for good singers and organists...but not the only one. I personally enjoy the diversity of CE venues, be they cathedral, college, (Anglican and RC) and the occasional one-off.

I agree with Draco's views about St Thomas NY, but they do have a choirschool for choristers only, excellent resources and a DoM of proven track record....and unlike Wabbey and St Paul's, there is no pressure of endless state and other ceremonial occasions.

[Wolsey]

Well, Wolsey, with respect, I still maintain and will continue to do so, that under John Scott, St Thomas Fifth Avenue NYC rivals any of the ensembles mentioned, and is one of the very, very best men and boys choir singing Anglican liturgy anywhere - five or six times a week all transmitted live via webcast, interspersed by finel;y nuanced men-only services and many fantastic concerts.

They are IMO the real deal. And I can tell you that hearing them live on site is better.

Indeed - I don't dispute that at all! I have also heard the St Thomas Choir live, and listen regularly to the webcasts; no need to preach to the converted.

[DracoM]

Delighted we share enthusiasm for them.

[Keraulophone]

they do have a choirschool for choristers only, excellent resources and a DoM of proven track record....

They don't seem to be having too much difficulty in raising the $8 million for their new Dobson organ.
As an aside, I was amazed to be offered a glass of Champagne after Sunday morning Eucharist there, instead of the weak coffee I'm usually offered here!

Whatever the resources at his disposal, John Scott is of course doing a fantastic job over the pond, and the comprehensive webcasts are a real treat for enthusiasts worldwide.