Margaret Thatcher's Funeral

[bach736]

One wonders what some of the composers would have thought of being included...

Philip Spratley of Deeping St James, Lincs, was clearly thinking the same today in his letter to 'The Indie' ...

Cecil Spring Rice, the author of “I Vow to Thee my Country”, was the son of a Whig MP. Gustav Holst, whose wonderful melody comes from the Planets suite, was a lifelong socialist who, in between teaching at Morley College for working men and women, delivered Socialist Worker through letter boxes.

His lifelong friend Vaughan Williams was also a socialist and both men refused honours and knighthoods. VW adapted a Sussex folk song he had collected from a farm worker to words rewritten from Bunyan by the Rev Percy Dearmer: “He who would Valiant be”. Dearmer, an energetic vicar from Primrose Hill, was passionate about socialism and his gifts and advancement were ignored because of his beliefs. He and Vaughan Williams were the editors of the English Hymnal, which appeared in 1906. Both were immediately denounced by the ultra-conservative Archbishop from the pulpit of Canterbury Cathedral for using folk tunes, among other things.

[W.Kearns]

Whatever your respect for tradition, SS, this objection is surely a little hard on the individual herself. Cheers to her, say I, for her courage and musicianship. Cheers too to whoever had the enterprise to engage her among the deps

[secret squirrel]

Perhaps, but is my "outrage" any different to,say, having a female alto at Kings or Johns or Christchurch or, or, or...?

I do not doubt her courage and musicianship or that of whose enterprise resulted in her being there today, but this is wider than the girl/boy chorister debate 20-odd years ago; there are many fine male altos who could have depped today (and previously as GJ has reminded us) and if St Paul's claims to be an all-male choir (does it still? I don't know), then her presence deserves comment.

Was there not a court case about 10 years ago when a female tenor applied for a layclerkship somewhere and the institution won on the grounds of some centuries-old statute?!

It just came over to me as "what a perfect opportunity to 'prove a point'" when perhaps another Abbey lay vicar could have depped instead (I think one was depping already!).

[BBMmk2]

It is surprising how rarely state occasions such as this produce the best in music. But I thought to-day's selection was actually quite good although I felt that the Brahms did not sit well with the rest. S S Wesley could have slotted in here rather better. And he was English . . . .

I believe Lady Thatcher was considered unmusical which might explain why the choices reminded me of Princess Margaret's appearance on Desert Island Discs.

Marget Thatcher certainly wasnt umusical. She lov3ed opera and also a great Bartokian as well, believe it or no/! What we saw was her public side, which ofcourse, totally different to her private side. She also never accepted any state advantages to her position. alkways paid her own way. Not bad I think.

I did wonder why the Brahms was slotted in there like that. It did seem rather out of place.

[ardcarp]

She also never accepted any state advantages to her position. always paid her own way

One cannot help but think of the many who die destitute, their 'estate' not able to cover any funeral costs. Their budget crem service may be attended by one or two...sometimes only the priest and a couple of undertakers. No musical In Paradisum, though maybe.......

[Matthew Martin]

Marget Thatcher certainly wasnt umusical. She lov3ed opera and also a great Bartokian as well, believe it or no/! What we saw was her public side, which ofcourse, totally different to her private side. She also never accepted any state advantages to her position. alkways paid her own way. Not bad I think.

I did wonder why the Brahms was slotted in there like that. It did seem rather out of place.

She chose the Brahms for her husband's funeral. Perhaps that had something to do with it being included?

[secret squirrel]

At least it was sung in an English translation (though not the more common 'dwellings fair'), and Stanford wasn't English either - he was Irish, no?

Are there any other suggestions for a less apposite Wesley work apart from my two, above?

[Matthew Martin]

My thoughts are that the repertoire was spot on for the occasion. The singing, playing and direction were all of the highest order of cultured musicianship.

[ardcarp]

Are there any other suggestions for a less apposite Wesley work apart from my two, above?

Thou judge of quick and dead.

Less is more.

[Y Mab Afradlon]

The line up for a recent recording may give a clue to the make up of today's back row

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/notes/cad78908fee75e07/67921-B.pdf

Also glad to see that Mr Carwood managed to observe the hemiola in the Brahms. Bravo

[secret squirrel]

one of the choristers on that link is a "Charles Groves"; not the same Head Boy from 1928 (iirc), I trust??!

As I said to someone else today, I hope this lady's presence (since 2011, I now gather) will soon trigger a front row of girls so that my daughter can follow her father's childhood footsteps....

But I will always remain the last to be caned (for a reasonably minor misdemeanour, it has to be said...!)

[Wolsey]

I believe Lady Thatcher was considered unmusical...

Having just listened to the opening of the 1978 Desert Island Discs in which she was the castaway, we learn that she used to play the piano, and that she sang in the Oxford Bach Choir when at university - a fact borne out by a reminiscence of an Oxford contemporary which I heard in one of the rash of programmes about her life last week.

[Yojimbo]

I thought the service very nicely done by all concerned. For anyone wanting to read further on the issue of a lady in the back row, I still think Iestyn Davies' piece is the most thoughtful and considered reflection so far.

The choir did a great job, the processional Croft especially. In fact I think we got the better deal listening over the mics than the wash most of the congregation will have experienced (a function of the building, not the singing or direction!).

The selection of music was lovely and the whole thing very erudite. It makes a nice change. People sometimes choose funny things for occasions like this - I will never forget a wedding at which the choir I sang with was asked to perform 'O vos omnes'. I wonder if the groom knew what the text meant (O all ye who pass by, behold and see if there is any sorrow like unto my sorrow!).

[terratogen]

Time for girls in the front row, then......!

More than time. Here's to hoping that, once established, their contributions won't be hidden for fear of spoiling such broadcasts as this week's.

At any rate: lovely music impressively performed by St Paul's choir. I can't claim awareness of Margaret Thatcher's opinion on Brahms--or of his on her--but 'How Lovely...' taken in isolation has always struck me as a beautiful option for a funeral service if the choir is up to it-- which, of course, St Paul's choir was. So well done, and even better considering the fairly short notice.

[fsharpminor]

Different service?

[QUOTE=Yojimbo;285264]I thought the service very nicely done by all concerned. For anyone wanting to read further on the issue of a lady in the back row, I still think Iestyn Davies' piece is the most thoughtful and considered reflection so far.

The choir did a great job, the processional Croft especially.]


I'm not sure we all heard the same thing. The choir sang loudly (some tenors louder than the rest) and with, I thought, little finesse; it was all a bit martellato and unphrased to my ears. No doubt a function of that cavernous building, but not helped by Mr Carwood's over-emphantic conducting.