CE King's College, Cambridge 2.ii.11

[Miles Coverdale]

Actually, I think the 'New St Paul's Psalter' was a great step forward

Really? I thought it was horribly over-complicated. I remember depping there a few times in the (now quite distant) past and it was a nightmare to sight-read from - all those different symbols to show which bits were to be omitted were not easy to get to grips with at short notice. In some instances you had to sing five verses before you got to sing the chant the whole way through. I'm not surprised that it didn't last long after John Scott's departure.

I don't think one can point a psalm well in isolation - it has to be done knowing the chant it will be sung to to ensure that the chant doesn't impose false accents on the text because of injudiciously-placed rising intervals and the like.

[ardcarp]

MC That recording of St George's, Windsor, c.1924 was fascinating. Don't you just love the vowel sounds and the syllable stresses, eg evAAAH (for 'ever'). It is so evocative of those times. I don't think we should rush to judgement about it, because that gabbled reciting note, the elongation of the syllable just before a bar-line and the metrical chanting notes were (according to my information) how it was done. There are shades of that style still at NCO!

I have memories of going to church as a very small child with my grandmother and hearing psalms sung, congregationally, very much like that. I was also privileged to know two ex-choral scholars who were at Kings in the 1920s (in 'Daddy' Mann's day) who spoke to me about how psalms were done, not only there but in their boy-chorister days...one was at St George's. They were not conducted during services by the way; the organist played the organ and didn'r 'flap about' in the choir. Then there is the example (which I have mentioned before on thse boards) of the Somerset pipe organ with a barrel mechanism not only with hymns but also a couple of psalm chants. Imagine how the pointing might have worked.

Fashions and styles of performance inevitably evolve over the years. Given that each establishment that sings psalms regularly develops its own house-style (not to mention idiosyncrasy) it is hardly surprising that good and bad, right and wrong are rather difficult to define.

[Vile Consort]

Conducting the psalms seems to be a very recent development. Neither George Guest nor Philip Ledger did so in the 70's - hence stories about GG appearing in the organ loft in mid psalm and sliding on to the organ bench to take over from the organ student. What conducting there was was done by the choirmen furthest from the altar, with hands resting on the top of the music stand and moving only their fingers.

At Ripon there is, of course, a wooden hand enabling the organist to conduct from the organ loft - though I can't imagine it was anything other than farcical.

[bach736]

For more about the Ripon 'hand of God' and other unusual organ contraptions, do look at this fascinating thread from the Mander organs website. I rather like the idea of a cocktail cabinet opened by a drawstop labelled 'Tibia Liquida'!

http://www.mander-organs.com/discussion/lofiversion/index.php/t988.html

[ardcarp]

I quite liked the concept of a Choir-to-Pub coupler in a recent post.

[Miles Coverdale]

I agree that, as a window into a bygone era, it is fascinating. The vowel sounds - 'them that fyear him' - are very much of their time. If you follow this link: http://www.inquiresandplaces.com/index.html you can hear the long-since-defunct choir of St Andrew's, Wells Street (bottom of the page), doing more of the same. The fact that the organist rarely lifts the chord at the half-verse, coupled with the relentless reciting style, with not the slightest attention paid to the meaning of the words (assuming you can even make them out), make for a very unsatisfying listen in my opinion. I'm afraid I still think it's horrible, even if that is how everyone did it then.

[bach736]

Really? I thought it was horribly over-complicated.

You're absolutely right, MC, it was - but the John Scott idea of shortening the recitation and placing more words in the following bar I thought gave a truer reflection of contemporary speech rhythms.

I prefer : He hath filled the / hungry . with good / things :
and the / rich he . hath sent / empty . a / way

to He hath filled the hungry with / good / things :
and the rich he / hath sent / empty . a / way

but it's just a matter of personal taste really. We've certainly come a long way since 1924!

[inquires]

I'm pleased that readers have found the early recordings of Psalms from my website to be of interest. A couple of points regarding the two extracts from St Andrew's Wells Street and St George's Chapel Windsor. Both these recordings were made in the days before the microphone, being acoustic recordings and as such, it was not possible to record the entire choir in the studio. The 'choir' had to travel to the recording studio and in the case of St George's, the choir consisted of 6 choristers, 1 alto, 1 tenor and 1 bass.

The St George's recording of 1924 was in fact the very last acoustic recording by a choir as microphones were introduced the following year.

St Andrew's represents the earliest example of recorded Anglican chanting and is significant as it gives an idea of the 19th century Cathedral Psalter-style delivery untouched by the reforms in chanting which began after the Great War. The next recorded example, that of Windsor, was influenced by changing ideals and the move towards 'speech-rhythm'

The collection contains many 100s of examples of chanting from various choirs over the course of a 100 years and is a fascinating subject of study.

[DracoM]

An ex-chorister from Ripon tells me that in his day [ 15 yrs or so ] more often than not, the leading chorister on each side conducted psalms, but the wooden hand was very rarely used, except to wave if things were going well!

[french frank]

I'm pleased that readers have found the early recordings of Psalms from my website to be of interest.

Nice to see you here, inquires. What a fascinating collection and aural glimpse into the past!

[ardcarp]

Nice to see you here, inquires. What a fascinating collection and aural glimpse into the past!

Hear hear on both counts.

[inquires]

Hear hear on both counts.

Thank you. Of particular relevance are the Choral Evensong broadcasts in the collection, numbering almost 1000, with the earliest example from 1948. I am also compiling a database of every Choral Evensong broadcasts, detailing the music. This is already throwing up many interesting facts about the broadcast choirs.

[Phoenix]

Regarding the balance at King's College Cambridge last Wednesday (2nd Feb), I was there, in the stalls, sitting opposite the alto responsible for the 'imbalance' and close to the tenors. In addition, I had recently been to a concert by the Collegium Regale (7 of the men on that occasion) at which the aforementioned alto was present. My impression, on both occasions, was that the alto was perfect and made a terrific sound, bringing out his line when required and then blending back into the general mix. The tenors were doing much the same but without quite such brilliance. The basses merely droned along pleasantly. They sound very young, of course, and basses often need to be more powerfully incisive than other voices in such resonant acoustics. Perhaps they will grow into it?

I would like to make another point in passing. The demeanour of all the members of the choir, and especially the boys, was, as always, perfect. At one time of course, under more oppressive regimes this was normal everywhere. Even the probationers at King's seemed to be on display and behaved impeccably with hardly a glance to right or left. I wonder whether this concentration on the way they present themselves might affect their risk-taking instincts. One cannot imagine a row of King's boys getting as physical about their singing as the lads at New College, say.

Finally, I must add that however the service came over on the radio, for those of us present it was, as ever, a rewarding experience, warming and peaceful (even the psalms, in their new pointing by the DoM, were interesting). And the congregation did as it was told and listened in appreciative silence to the Buxtehude. At St John's, alas, the departing congregation can almost defeat "Dieu parmi nous".

[french frank]

Valuable comments from one who was there - thanks, Phoenix!

[DracoM]

Yes, indeed, unpardonably tardily, may I also bid welcome.

Wild, wild, wild days oop north at present. Hoping to hang on to some remaining roof slates - rather occupying some thought.