The Canterbury Enthronement...the music?

[MrGongGong]

So a music dept, yes. Awarding trad music degrees probably not. But then some universities that ought to know better (e.g. Exeter ) have ceased running music degree courses on the grounds that they are not 'cost-effective'

It is probably libelous to suggest that some VCs may be philistines. t

Ahem that's NOT why Exeter closed its department
though it is one of the stated reasons why UEA is closing its

[Stephen Whitaker]

Daily Mail readers don't see why the tax-payer should provide education for what they think is a hobby ,
that the truly dedicated will pursue anyway. (Direct quote from a female acquaintance)

[MrGongGong]

[Apostrophe alert Mr GG.]

Daily Mail readers don't see why the tax-payer should provide education for what they think is a hobby
that the truly dedicated will pursue anyway. (Direct quote from a female acquaintance)

I feel the same about "business studies"

and wot Shankly said about football (which IS a hobby)

[Stephen Whitaker]

Why would anyone want to study topics such as accounting, business administration, strategy, economics, entrepreneurship, finance, human resource management, information systems, marketing, organizational behaviour, or public relations, when they could just learn on the job?

Gordon Taylor obviously wasted his time at Manchester Business School* too because he'd probably be earning squillions running the PFA anyway.


*As Manchester Municipal College of Technology it was among the first higher education institutions in the UK to follow the US trend of offering
Business Studies courses in the 1930s, so the rot set in before we were born.

[jean]

Ahem that's NOT why Exeter closed its department...

How would you put it, then?

This is what I'd always heard:

In a recent article in Classical Music, Exeter University justifies the closure as a need to refocus funding on larger, more successful departments, falling in line with the recent higher education act. The vice-chancellor, Steve Smith, said he would like Exeter to continue to be a leading research university, so unfortunately cannot continue to support the music department.

[MrGongGong]

How would you put it, then?

This is what I'd always heard:

In a recent article in Classical Music, Exeter University justifies the closure as a need to refocus funding on larger, more successful departments, falling in line with the recent higher education act. The vice-chancellor, Steve Smith, said he would like Exeter to continue to be a leading research university, so unfortunately cannot continue to support the music department.

Exeter's music department was very successful and very highly rated indeed (I think it was in the top 10 of UK Universities)
like the closure (oops sorry "Merger" ) of Dartington with Falmouth and the sad demise of UEA's music department there is considerable politicking behind the scenes.
As with most things, what one reads in the press is often only partially "true" .......

[jean]

But what was the 'politicking' about? You don't say.

I'm interested because it is my old University, and when I was there there was no music department, only a sad and disappointed man called Reginald Moore.

Everything I know about the Music Department that subsequently flourished is hearsay.

[Vox Humana]

I think you will find that the closure of the music and chemistry departments at Exeter was part of the price paid for the university's compact with Cornwall County Council and the European Regional Development Fund to build a campus in Cornwall.

I don't know anything about music (or lack of) in Reginald Moore's time, but subsequently the department did indeed acquire a very high reputation. Professor Paul Doe was a world class scholar in the Tudor music field, as, arguably even more so, was his successor Nick Sandon. For post-grads at any rate, if this was your sphere of interest, Exeter was one of the places in the country to go.

[MrGongGong]

But what was the 'politicking' about? You don't say.

I can't really say
but i'm sure if you dig a little you will find out ...........

[teamsaint]

There are some interesting issues around the closure of Exeter and more recently UEA.
First , universities today are money making machines, end of.

Secondly, I would cautiously suggest that entrance requirements for music degrees are somewhat lower (or at least have been until recently) for other comparably "prestigious" courses at the same universities. I don't know why this is, although of course where there are performance requirements, these are a factor to be taken into account.

Also, there is the new allowance for universities to recruit unlimited numbers of students with 2 A's and a B,(and from this year an A and 2 B's.)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/9689004/Britains-best-universities-failed-to-fill-11500-places.html

IIRC, UEA were looking at 3 B's for entry to music before closure. If they got wind of this new stipulation, that might have affected their decision making on how to allocate resources. Money rules.

Incidentally, as MrGG will no doubt verify, there are considerable issues around what will be delivered and how on music first degrees. The spotlight is certainly on the cost of individual performance tuition, for instance. I have heard an admissions tutor say this in public, at an open day.

[MrGongGong]

I think (or rather know) that the withdrawal of funding for arts and humanities subjects has meant that it's much easier for institutions to decide not to keep them as they have to find the money from elsewhere.
As teamsaint points out, Universities are businesses

[Stanfordian]

I thoroughly enjoyed the whole thing. Musically, it knocked the Papal Installation into a cocked hat (unsurprisingly!) It rarely gets a mention, but I thought the bellringing was pretty damned good at the end!

Hiya Mr Stoat, You say "Musically, it knocked the Papal Installation into a cocked hat (unsurprisingly!)." But in my view this is like comparing chalk and cheese. I think this is more about your personal taste in sacred music.

[ardcarp]

I am sorry to say, McG that 'cost-effectiveness' (subtly different from 'saving money' in weasel-babble) was the reason for Exeter closing its music department. My reply from the VC when I wrote vehemently to complain said so.

Indeed Paul Doe and Nick Sandon were excellent scholars. But it should not be forgotten that Arthur Hutchings was the first Prof at Exeter. He (as Prof at Durham) had been asked to advise on the appointment, and he suggested himself as he fancied a move to the West Country! He was a great polemicist, and I would fear for any VC that had dared to close the Department while he was in charge.

I have no actual connection with Exeter, but suffice it to say that of the three people named above I was taught by one, was a fellow student of another and a close friend of the third. I'll leave that in the air...but I am still about the crass, short-sighted, philistine, parsimonious, bloody-minded decision to stop a degree course at the university....and this in a cathedral city with choral scholars and.....oh my blood pressure is rising.

[Vox Humana]

I am still about the crass, short-sighted, philistine, parsimonious, bloody-minded decision to stop a degree course at the university....and this in a cathedral city with choral scholars and.....oh my blood pressure is rising.

I couldn't agree more.

[Simon]

Ahem that's NOT why Exeter closed its department ...

(refers to cost)

It's the reason they gave. So if it wasn't that, what was it?


Edit: Sorry ardcarp - I replied before I'd read all the thread and saw your last just above.