CE Salisbury Cathedral Wed, 6th Feb 2013

[decantor]

I usually find that, by the time Draco, ardcarp, and a few others have had their say about a CE, there is little that can usefully be added by the likes of me. But perhaps I'm wrong about that: perhaps one should always register one's approval when it can be given honestly. I would not be in favour of congregational applause at the end of a well-delivered service, but there's been many a time when I've ached to have a way of expressing immediate gratitude.

The Salisbury choir worked flat-out (within musical constraints, of course) to make the broadcast memorable, and they were aided by the music scheme: a Howells' gem, a pot-boiling war-horse, an exciting early-Jacobean masterpiece, some Walton wizardry, and RVW's exhilarating new take on an Old 100th - this was CE in imperial mode. The choir were up for it, but were they up to it? Well, I thought the tenors had a shaky moment or two, and the trebs (surely boys and girls?) were a tad shrill near the top and occasionally a tad coarse in the middle. Yet, while I may use the vocabulary of criticism, I have no wish to be critical - I was swept along by this service, heedless of any momentary imperfections. Imperfections are human, and I am more unsettled by apparent perfection. Someone upthread found the Gibbons relentless: true, but it also had (pace Billy Elliott) electricity, generated by a choir dedicated to liturgy. The liturgical impact is the ultimate litmus. Thank you, Salisbury.

You see? You're all lucky I don't post regularly about CE! It's all flammable high-octane stuff.

[terratogen]

Yet, while I may use the vocabulary of criticism, I have no wish to be critical - I was swept along by this service, heedless of any momentary imperfections.

Yes. This exactly. However I may have expressed myself re: the treble sound, I can say without reservation that I would have leapt at the opportunity to hear the boys and girls (and gentlemen!) sing this service in situ.


And thanks, ardcap, for the reassurance. I do enjoy reading the posts that people around The Choir make, particularly when, as they so often do, they lead to discussion on a few of my pet interest questions. It's good to know that one is free to listen and chime in even without any sort of musical pedigree!

[DracoM]

Absolutely! Would love to have been there.

[Petrushka]

Full time work means that I have to catch the Sunday repeat or record CE (sometimes both) and am much looking forward to hearing this one. RVW's arrangement of the Old 100th is a real goosebump moment for me, so beloved of my own choir days in the mid-late 1960s. I can well imagine this as being one CE I would have liked to have taken the day off for and been there myself.

[ardcarp]

Can you not use the BBC i-player, Petrushka? I nearly always have to hear CE that way.

[Petrushka]

Can you not use the BBC i-player, Petrushka? I nearly always have to hear CE that way.

I can, yes, but it just feels right on a Sunday and fits in very well with my lifestyle.

[ardcarp]

There is something special about hearing CE (or for that matter any other music) broadcast live. What is that frisson? The keeping of fingers crossed that nothing will go wrong? I don't know. And what is 'live'? Listening on FM is as near live as one can get, constrained only by (presumably) the speed of light. Is 'digital' with its slight delay really 'live'? Anyway, for whatever reason, hearing the Sunday repeat or via i-player isn't the same. Such a pity 3.30pm is a tricky time for many of us.

[DracoM]

For those who missed it - and many seemed to suggest it was worth catching - repeat today @ 4 p.m.

[decantor]

For those who missed it - and many seemed to suggest it was worth catching - repeat today @ 4 p.m.

.....and for those who didn't miss it - still well worth hearing again. I enjoyed it almost as much on repeat, but ardcarp is quite right (#22): there is less buzz-and-tingle second time around. There's something 'in the moment' about a genuinely live broadcast, and I'd like to think there is more to that than the fear of a breakdown, though I can't think what it might be...... perhaps it's an instant empathy with a choir working - concentrating - so hard to turn their rushed rehearsals into meaningful reality as part of a greater whole. I notice that Salisbury did not test out the music of this broadcast in the preceding days' services: there's always risk in performance art, but should that risk be an element in an audience's response, or a congregation's? Perhaps it's inevitable.

But that's not my main point in posting. I know that cathedral DoMs often receive appreciation after broadcast services - letters and emails - and they must surely find it gratifying. I was wondering if members of this forum regularly took the time to express their own gratitude. I have done so myself - far less often than I should, even though the response from DoMs humbles my paltry efforts at commending their dedication and musicianship. I find myself in quandary: to write every time dilutes the sincerity through weekly repetition and the inadequacy of words; to write only to a select few betrays the wider gratitude I feel to the whole tradition. How do others resolve this issue (if it is an issue at all)?

[ardcarp]

Decantor. The reasons why we belong to and post on a public forum such as this must be many and varied. I hardly dare look deeply into my soul to discover my own motives. (Mrs Ardcarp, on the other hand, digs around in there and isn't always complimentary about what she finds.) I suppose we all see ourselves as critics, but as I am sure you will agree, decantor, 'to be critical' should not mean the same as 'to criticise' in the semantically evolved sense. I am desperately trying not to sound smug or pompous by saying that any critical analyses of CEs I post up are prompted by a love of the medium and the repertoire and a desire for both to approach personally held ideals of perfection. As to why I should presume anyone else to be remotely interested in my ramblings...well, I must be the same as any Facebookist or Tweeter I suppose.

The Choir Forum would be terribly bland if we all posted 'super....marvellous' about everything we heard. There is a tendency for us to be more 'critica'l of the big, well-established and well-endowed foundations than of the small outsiders who try hard to do a good job....and sometimes surprise us all by doing it in spades. In the past, I have written the occasional letter of congratulation to a DoM, especially if I have had a personal connection with him/her or the place. Maybe that's the best way of showing our personal appreciation.

I do have some inside knowledge of what some DoMs and some choirmembers think of this Forum. On the one hand they think we are a mixed bag of eccentric nerds who think we know how to do things better, and are ever ready to dispense unwanted advice from the lofty heights of our armchairs. On the other, they keep a watching brief, are pleased by praise and wary of criticism...some of which hits home. There is one example (no names) where a particular point was made by several posters about a certain CE. The DoM, whilst slightly hurt, did take the comments to heart and has subsequently...how shall I put this?....finely adjusted things.

[DracoM]

I would echo a great deal that decantor and ardcarp have said.

I help to facilitate this Forum, not because I have any particular expertise at all - actually I am pretty deeply awed by most who contribute - but rather that I felt that the skills of those we hear on CE were being devalued and marginalised by the broadcasting networks, ignored or romanticised or rendered fluffy and sweet and lovely at Christmas by the PR widgets, and anything that could be done to raise awareness of the immense skills, dedication and role they played in our ongoing cultural life was worth doing.

There is so much wonderful music threaded together in these weekly hours stretching for centuries in all directions, and for the most part sung live as part of liturgy that is itself many centuries old, that that chemistry must be celebrated. We have precious little of the indelible frisson that comes from genuinely live music these days on the BBC [ or unless we are regularly part of live performing ensembles or regular concert goers ] that we must hunger for it. If we have been part of the kind of ensembles we hear on CE, as I have, then the music is both part of what we are and an anchor in what we value. That in many instances, this precious cultural bundle is being placed at least in part in the hands of children to carry forward into the next generation is of itself thoroughly gladdening. When words of appraisal are offered, it is in part a feeble attempt to participate, memorialise, and share ideas with the like-minded. And to learn from what we hear in the services and from the interaction of posters in this Forum.

And this Forum has actually been useful. I recall one DoM who had been seriously distressed by how the engineers had insisted the choir should be set out and the resultant bewildering soundscape that had come across on air. The choir had also been upset when hearing themselves back, particularly the solo boys, and parents had even contacted the DoM to ask what on earth had been going on. All this the Forum learnt from the DoM in a PM, and the Forum was able to relay the extent of the distress to some relevant authorities. If a DoM is desperate to recruit new choristers and has a vital chance via a live CE to proclaim the foundation's expertise and something awful happens, then the fallout can be serious, not so much for the 'big players' but for the second rank who struggle to keep choirs peopled and functioning at a high level. And IME many DoMs are usually delighted to get emails of thanks and appreciation.

Yes, they can also bridle, but at least they are being heard, noticed and, as ardcarp so eloquently said, very occasionally have had their attention drawn to some aspect of the service that might have escaped attention in the inevitable adrenalin-fuelled flurry of getting the service rehearsed and in place. I recall one DoM I contacted with thanks telling me that on the very day itself, thanks to a flu bug, he actually had merely twelve boys out of the usual eighteen in rehearsal and by the time they had got to robe for the service four more had gone down, and only four boys a side to sing a service of Gibbons and Purcell, all of which required solos. They'd insisted on not cancelling, and got through it somehow. There was little comment on the Forum about the singing per se except in general terms [ one poster thought it had been girls singing], merely about the brilliance of the organ voluntary! For which the DoM was eternally grateful.

We might be nerds, but we are also deeply appreciative nerds, however that is shown in writing.

[teamsaint]

I think that part of the frisson of live choral evensong is the fact that, at the big institutions at least, it involves the outside world "dropping in" on a real world, (a slightly out of the ordinary one admittedly) where what we hear goes on every day, every week. Hopefully nothing packaged, airbrushed, or that didn't happen the day before or the day after. The work that goes into the broadcast event isn't too different to that which goes into the service the day before or the day after, and if something isn't perfect....well that is life, the real life we are dropping in on.
That is a rare thing today .
Love the story about the Gibbons/Purcell 8 trebles event. That must have been truly memorable for the participants.

Edit: as for peoples motives for posting on these sites....just look for good ones , and ignore what we perceive as the less than noble.
I have learned a great deal here, and I am grateful for it. And if somebody gets a bit of satisfaction from sharing their knowledge or experience, then that is one little step forward for all concerned.

[decantor]

On the subject of heroic efforts....

I understand that, on Jan 18th when the snow fell in abundance, only six choristers managed to get through for evensong at Hereford: the oldest of them was 11, the youngest 8. The service went ahead, including antiphonal psalms, Byrd fauxbourdon canticles, and a 4-part Palestrina anthem. My informant (who sings on the back row) admits the service wasn't quite perfect, but he still found it a very impressive effort.

Apologies for the drift off-topic - I thought the 'achievement' deserved a wider audience.

[DracoM]

The Bowen Effect?

[Simon]

I heard this whilst hanging about in Holland on the Sunday, along with a good part of the remainder of R3's output that evening, which to my ears and mind was absolutely wonderful. And two Walton Te Deums to boot. Turned an annoyingly interrupted journey into a pleasure.

I fully agree with the positive comments about Salisbury and much appreciated both the superb choice of repertoire the enthusiasm and skill that choir and organist showed throughout.