Angelic Voices: The Choristers of Salisbury Cathedral on BBC 4

[Miles Coverdale]

Good point, Mary. Westminster Cathedral Choir combine the alto boys with two Countertenors, so there's no reason why that wouldn't work. This begs the question on behalf of alto boys in general too. I wonder what prompted WCC to do that in the first place? As far as I am aware it is unique to Westminster Cathedral.

Both Chester and Coventry cathedrals used to have boy altos, though neither does now.

[terratogen]

What a charming documentary; and, indeed, what a charmed life for these young people, to have the privilege of spending their formative years doing such wonderful work in such a beautiful place as Salisbury. If I have any criticism at all, it's that this programme renewed my regret, shared with Mary Chambers' above, that all children cannot be so lucky.

I thought the programme struck a lovely balance between the ancient and the modern, the work and the play, and I can't complain at all of a bias toward either the boys or the girls. I'm also very grateful for the long stretches of music—a few of which have been available on Youtube for quite some time now—and only, as always, wish that we could hear even more.

Even never having been a chorister, I found it a bit hard to watch the scenes shot during and after the leavers' service; seeing the Year 8s during their last evensong would have been enough, but to put Blest Pair of Sirens and The Day Thou Gavest over it? Incredibly moving— moving, but never maudlin. Very in keeping with the spirit of joy that ran through the whole film, which I thought could be summed up in this exchange:

A Chorister: What was your favourite part of being a chorister?
Rev. Michael Shiner: Just being. Just being, literally.

Excellent, excellent programme.

[Norfolk Born]

What a charming documentary; and, indeed, what a charmed life for these young people, to have the privilege of spending their formative years doing such wonderful work in such a beautiful place as Salisbury. If I have any criticism at all, it's that this programme renewed my regret, shared with Mary Chambers' above, that all children cannot be so lucky.

I thought the programme struck a lovely balance between the ancient and the modern, the work and the play, and I can't complain at all of a bias toward either the boys or the girls. I'm also very grateful for the long stretches of music—a few of which have been available on Youtube for quite some time now—and only, as always, wish that we could hear even more.

Even never having been a chorister, I found it a bit hard to watch the scenes shot during and after the leavers' service; seeing the Year 8s during their last evensong would have been enough, but to put Blest Pair of Sirens and The Day Thou Gavest over it? Incredibly moving— moving, but never maudlin. Very in keeping with the spirit of joy that ran through the whole film, which I thought could be summed up in this exchange:

A Chorister: What was your favourite part of being a chorister?
Rev. Michael Shiner: Just being. Just being, literally.

Excellent, excellent programme.

May I just say that you've elegantly expressed my own feelings about the programme. I detected little if any bias in any aspect of the programme.

[Simon Biazeck]

May I just say that you've elegantly expressed my own feelings about the programme. I detected little if any bias in any aspect of the programme.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, It seems to me they went to great trouble to achieve a balance, as well they might - a difficult thing to perfect in the editing suite. I can see this documentary becoming a classic, especially if it gets onto YouTube. Well done the Beeb and all at Salisbury!

[jean]

...alto boys...I wonder what prompted WCC to do that in the first place?

Whatever prompted them, it was a long time ago - the tenor John Elwes was a boy alto there in the 1960s, under his original name John Hahessy.

I remember a discussion here in the course of which reference was made to an article by one of the rising young counter-tenors (I can't remember which) bitterly regretting the appointment of a female alto to one English cathedral (I can't remember which) on the grounds that there were so few career opportunities for male altos. Does anyone have a better memory than me?

(Haven't watched the documentary yet.)

[Simon Biazeck]

Whatever prompted them, it was a long time ago - the tenor John Elwes was a boy alto there in the 1960s, under his original name John Hahessy.

I remember a discussion here in the course of which reference was made to an article by one of the rising young counter-tenors (I can't remember which) bitterly regretting the appointment of a female alto to one English cathedral (I can't remember which) on the grounds that there were so few career opportunities for male altos. Does anyone have a better memory than me?

(Haven't watched the documentary yet.)

Yes, but as pointed out earlier it was not a new idea, although I had always thought it was unique to the 'Drome'. WCC is a relatively new choral foundation compared to Chester. I don't want to be responsible for sidetracking this discussion into the second topic you mention, which was a well handled hot potato quite recently, and arguably over-baked! Do watch the programme - it is quite delightful. Best wishes. S.

[Norfolk Born]

The Head of Music at Salisbury has just emailed to tell me that they are all pleased with the finished product.

[DracoM]

Well, they're hardly likely to say it was a disaster, are they?

It was a very polished product. Of course they will dine out on it at fund-raising events for years.

[Norfolk Born]

Well, they're hardly likely to say it was a disaster, are they?

It was a very polished product. Of course they will dine out on it at fund-raising events for years.

Thank you for sharing our joy...perhaps my ignorance of choral and religious matters played to my advantage and prevented me from spotting flaws in the programme that are self-evident to those blessed with greater expertise in the field. I thought it was a lovely programme, you appear to have suspicions as to the motives of those who made it and those who appeared in it. I think this is one of those (thankfully numerous) occasions on which I really should give thanks for being such a simple soul.

[DracoM]

I have no "suspicions" whatever, and that is an unfair insinuation.

BUT as a matter of cold fact, it is precisely the kind of programme that if I were advising a foundation, I would make sure they would use when recruiting, fund-raising etc - if the BBC allowed that. Wouldn't you?

And as I have twice remarked above, it was a finely made programme with high production values. Hence a godsend to a foundation's fund-raising strategies.

Unlike some, I did feel a bit uneasy with some of the editorial balance, but as a piece of kulchurtelly, better than most.

[MrGongGong]

I guess he's not called Drogo Malcontent for nothing

I watched half of this and found it a curious egg
as a promo for the church I guess it does it's job if that's your thing
BUT
made me feel more than a little sad at seeing 9 and 10 year olds seemingly always dressed up like 1950's office workers and giving very "adult" replies to the (unheard) questions ............. one can really excel at music as a child and still be a child !

convince me that the rest is worth it ?

[Mary Chambers]

made me feel more than a little sad at seeing 9 and 10 year olds seemingly always dressed up like 1950's office workers and giving very "adult" replies to the (unheard) questions ............. one can really excel at music as a child and still be a child !

convince me that the rest is worth it ?

I thought it was a pleasure to hear such articulate children. There are quite enough people who can't string more than two words together at any age.

The clothes I barely noticed. We only saw them in school uniform or cassocks, didn't we? Or pyjamas.

The only problem for me, as I've said, is that the musical education is tied up with religion. That doesn't seem quite fair to all the children who have a different faith or none. I want ALL talented children to have the opportunities - a hopeless dream, I know.

[MrGongGong]

I thought it was a pleasure to hear such articulate children. There are quite enough people who can't string more than two words together at any age.
.

Indeed and I have met some very articulate children
but
i'm not convinced that these were "interviews" rather than the delivery of a script !

Why wear the uniforms all the time ? (maybe they don't in the bit I haven't seen )

As i've mentioned before it would be fascinating to get an ethnomusicological perspective on this collection of strange behaviours

[french frank]

The only problem for me, as I've said, is that the musical education is tied up with religion. That doesn't seem quite fair to all the children who have a different faith or none. I want ALL talented children to have the opportunities - a hopeless dream, I know.

Not irrelevant, I suppose, that the trained 'chorister' voice is associated particularly with religious music.

Other children's choirs seem to encourage the new 'choreographed' style of performance, the young voices aren't trained to sing as trebles and they want to sing a different kind of music. And, if truth be told, they probably wouldn't want the training, discipline and hard work which are needed for being a chorister and singing in that way. One should be grateful to 'religion' for keeping the tradition alive.

[MrGongGong]

Interesting that there was a prominent copy of the "singup" book in the songroom though
I wonder if it had been shot at Lincoln we would have seen them doing the sessions with "Cradle of Filth" ?
The bits I've seen (or rather heard) have all had a rather close miked sound which makes the Cathedral a bit superfluous acoustically speaking ........

But I do think it's a fascinating world , a bit like the Gagaku orchestra. I have a friend who is a Butoh dancer and spent most of her childhood as a Shinto Shrine Maiden , the similarities are interesting.