Westminster Abbey on BBC2

[Simon]

'What's Jesus Christ got to do with it?' I ask myself that question often about what goes on in the Church (particularly the CofE) today.

It must be well over 10 years since I was in the Abbey. I found the same sort of patronising unhelpful people there then as seem to be there today, from the above comments. Yet as was said, many rural or shire cathedrals manage without admission charges and have the friendliest of helpers and guides.

As for the above quoted comment - how right you are. But it's always the same with any sort of bureaucratic organisation - the maintaining of the bureaucracy by and for the bureaucrats develops to becoms more important than its original function. C of E guilty as charged - the RC juggernaut even more so.

[teamsaint]

It may be common to charge abroad, but its by no means universal even in bigger cathedrals.
I do know that people are routinely put off visiting our cathedrals by high admission charges...I have seen it happen....often. And those people simply don't understand, or don't have it suggested, that they might attend evensong and have a look around guilt free. This offputting attitude, and it doesn't just apply to potential paying visitors, is, sadly all too common. The C of E should be inviting as many people as possible to share its varied heritage.

As for where the money comes from. Well firstly, look around at what it is spent on and see what is really necessary for,say, quality music,......and secondly, cathedrals have proved themselves most adept at fundraising.....check out the home page at Winchester Cathedral's website, for instance.

[Simon]

It may be common to charge abroad, but its by no means universal even in bigger cathedrals.

I do know that people are routinely put off visiting our cathedrals by high admission charges... And those people simply don't understand, or don't have it suggested, that they might attend evensong and have a look around guilt free. This offputting attitude, and it doesn't just apply to potential paying visitors, is, sadly all too common. The C of E should be inviting as many people as possible to share its varied heritage.

Indeed, ts. Good post, IIMSS.

[teamsaint]

Just to mention, St Peters Rome, Notre Dame and Sacre Coeur are all free to visit, as was St John Lateran when I visited.

TBF, Sagrada Familia is 13 Euros.
Mind you, worth every penny,cent , or whatever.
Barcelona Cathedral is 5 euros, and has a sensational Tapas bar just outside the west end. Heaven.

[Historian]

Just to mention, St Peters Rome, Notre Dame and Sacre Coeur are all free to visit, as was St John Lateran when I visited.

Perhaps they receive more state funding than similar institutions in this country.

[Sir Velo]

Perhaps they receive more state funding than similar institutions in this country.

No doubt about it. The grants awarded by English Heritage have fallen drastically over the last few years. Most continental governments provide far greater levels of financial support for the upkeep of their historic buildings, including cathedrals.

[BBMmk2]

Gabriel Jackson, I competely agree. Yes, I think oit not good that sacred places of Christioanioty has to charge admission these days but like you said, the money has to come from somewhere! I have ancestors buried in WA, and St Paul's , but to keeping these buildings the way we know them this is just one way of doing so?

[ardcarp]

David G. There was indeed much of interest in the TV programme, and as I mentioned, it is good there was so much focus on the music. Indeed the Abbey is to some extent 'an organ of state'. I can however understand a slight unease. One cannot help but ask what some of its functions, fabrics and traditions have got to do with the tenets of Christianity. I feel somewhat hypocritical in saying this since I am (to put it at its best) only a lukewarm, semi-detached adherent of faith. And I do like a bit of fancy music and some ceremony. But to wishy-washy Christians like me, the message of the Gospels has nothing to do with materialism, elitism or privilege. One thinks of the 'hospitalers' of medieval monasteries whose function was to reach out to the poor and needy.

It is also arguable that the most-visited - Westminster Abbey, St Paul's, Canterbury, York Minster - would be even more like a cattle market inside if admission was free.

So numbers should be rationed by wealth?

[Vile Consort]

And those people simply don't understand, or don't have it suggested, that they might attend evensong and have a look around guilt free.

For heaven's sake, don't try that at the Abbey! I stopped, quite briefly, to look at something or other whilst walking through the nave to evensong and was accosted by a functionary and escorted into the quire. It's amazing how much menace can be worked into the phrase "Can I help you, sir?"

[Op. XXXIX]

For heaven's sake, don't try that at the Abbey! I stopped, quite briefly, to look at something or other whilst walking through the nave to evensong and was accosted by a functionary and escorted into the quire.

I think they're a tad more relaxed about it after CE. At least that has been my impression.

[mopsus]

(I don't know where the Eurostar idea comes from, by the way - the old Eurostar terminal was at Waterloo, hardly adjacent to Westminster Abbey.)

Possibly from such articles as this, published in 1997 when the Abbey first considered admission charges. "The problem has been ... compounded by the opening of the Eurostar train service. Tour operators routinely refer to the Abbey as the "Westminster Waiting Room", where day trippers congregate towards the end of the afternoon before returning to the Continent."

I would however be willing to believe that the Eurostar was being used as an excuse to introduce charges the Abbey had been considering anyway.

[Gabriel Jackson]

Possibly from such articles as this, published in 1997 when the Abbey first considered admission charges. "The problem has been ... compounded by the opening of the Eurostar train service. Tour operators routinely refer to the Abbey as the "Westminster Waiting Room", where day trippers congregate towards the end of the afternoon before returning to the Continent."

I would however be willing to believe that the Eurostar was being used as an excuse to introduce charges the Abbey had been considering anyway.

Doesn't mean they were right! Waiting rooms are usually adjacent to the train platforms, not a bus ride, or a tube journey, or a substantial walk away!

[Gabriel Jackson]

So numbers should be rationed by wealth?

I didn't say that.

[decantor]

Back to the programme...... I enjoyed it unashamedly. Free of charge (OK, the licence fee....), we were given access to the roof of the Abbey, to some of the priceless archives, to the choristers sight-singing in the song school, to the Chapter in deliberation, to the preparations and calculations behind some big events, and to yet more. What entrance fee would include all that - and there are two hours still to come? Why complain? The format may be that of a glossy, populist guide-book with moving pics, and the visitor's reality may depart from the visual impression, but we are still privy to insights not otherwise available. Is there anyone who is really willing to declare that they would rather this series had not been made?

It is encouraging, if unsurprising, that the choristers and their mentors are shown as central to the Abbey's mission - presumably the Lay Vicars will have their turn. While the fabric of no CoE foundation will look after itself, at least its buildings are more alive than so many in continental Europe, and it is the music that makes it so. Any TV programme that illustrates this symbiosis will win my vote. I, like others, would welcome more detail and speciality in a series about the Abbey, but it might well be more important to arouse a general awareness of what is at stake in these great foundations. If the BBC2 producers succeed in that, we should be grateful. Roll on next Friday.

[Mr Stoat]

Back to the programme...... I enjoyed it unashamedly. Free of charge (OK, the licence fee....), we were given access to the roof of the Abbey, to some of the priceless archives, to the choristers sight-singing in the song school, to the Chapter in deliberation, to the preparations and calculations behind some big events, and to yet more. What entrance fee would include all that - and there are two hours still to come? Why complain? The format may be that of a glossy, populist guide-book with moving pics, and the visitor's reality may depart from the visual impression, but we are still privy to insights not otherwise available. Is there anyone who is really willing to declare that they would rather this series had not been made?

It is encouraging, if unsurprising, that the choristers and their mentors are shown as central to the Abbey's mission - presumably the Lay Vicars will have their turn. While the fabric of no CoE foundation will look after itself, at least its buildings are more alive than so many in continental Europe, and it is the music that makes it so. Any TV programme that illustrates this symbiosis will win my vote. I, like others, would welcome more detail and speciality in a series about the Abbey, but it might well be more important to arouse a general awareness of what is at stake in these great foundations. If the BBC2 producers succeed in that, we should be grateful. Roll on next Friday.

Hear, hear. Agree absolutely. Excellently put.