CE Liverpool Anglican Cathedral November 21st 2012

[ardcarp]

Coll Reg rather makes my point. Despite big spaces and all that (though I wonder how many KCC chapels would fit inside Liverpool's Gothic vastness) the Coll Reg Mag has that lovely quiet and understated treble opening. Quiet sounds travel well (better?) in big spaces.

[DracoM]

Well, indeed, ardcarp, as the opening of the Whitlock in that service amply proved. Floated ppp.
Yes, I know we'd had St Paul's recently. I merely suggested it as a generic 'big-boned ' piece intended for a big space. Interestingly, that St P's too starts pp and builds to those fantastic Amens that seem to go on for ever.

[Gabriel Jackson]

Kings College also has a pretty spacious acoustic, so 'Coll Reg' would probably be equally at home. It always fascinates me how these particular settings are dedicated to and suitable for these particular spaces, yet end up being performed universally (even in pretty dead acoustics) - not that there is anything wrong with that, for the Howells 'big three' are superb settings which thoroughly deserve to be heard. I too enjoy the B minor, as well as the Westminster (which Derby gave us back in September) and the early setting in G; Howells wrote 21 in total I think so there is bound to be some which are 'less good' (not necessarily badly written, just less memorable overall).

Of course not all of them were quite as tailored to specific acoustics and buildings as Howells made out, and their dedications suggest...

[DracoM]

I thought Howells made a point of visiting the places of worship he was being asked to write for?
Naturally, you can't make them such music that site-specific, but, even so...............?

[Gabriel Jackson]

I thought Howells made a point of visiting the places of worship he was being asked to write for?
Naturally, you can't make them such music that site-specific, but, even so...............?

He wasn't always asked for settings, and there are several instances of canticles which were initially intended for one foundation, and ending up being dedicated to quite another

[DracoM]

e.g.?

[Gabriel Jackson]

e.g.?

I don't remember, specifically - Patrick Russill and Paul Spicer have written about this.

[Simon Biazeck]

I suppose the Howells St Paul's Service always springs to mind when one 'thinks big', maybe followed by the 'Gloucester'. But
just because you've got a big space doesn't mean everything's got to be on an awesome scale. I rather enjoyed the less demonstrative New College Service and felt L'pool gave us a measured and thoughtful performance. Howells in B minor is another very good, less demonstrative one. Can we have that soon?

A personal reminiscence about the RVW. I was accompanying it about 20 years ago and was told I didn't have to include the trumpet part as a real trumpeter was available. At the rehearsal I peered down from the loft (you don't play for the first part...always scary if the choir has gone out of tune) to try to spot him/her, but no sign. When the trumpet started, I realised, via the mirror, that one of the decani tenors had whipped out a trumpet and was making a briliant job of the solo. More impressive still, he joined in the tenor line to belt out that top 'A'. You never know what hidden talents people have.

I quite agree! I love the New College canticles and I thought they were an inspired choice here; beautifully rendered too. HH's harmony always benefits from the effect of melting into the stone work, and it seemed to me this set's finely wrought lyricism was drawing the ear in that vast space, even on the radio.

I have a feeling the Winchester Service wasn't originally intended for them, but I will have to check that when I have the time. The recent 'home team' recording on Hyperion is wonderful.

Great anecdote BTW!

This was a finely balanced choice of repertoire and came across all the better for it as an act of worship.

[Philip]

Of course not all of them were quite as tailored to specific acoustics and buildings as Howells made out, and their dedications suggest...

Indeed, this is true - see http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dw...55_66305&vw=dc, which is an introduction to the Gloucester Service; in particular 'Although the dedication is to Gloucester Cathedral, it was not composed to fulfil a commission, but in the wake of the success of the Collegium Regale set, written for King’s College, Cambridge in 1945' which perhaps illustrates the point (interestingly, the notes on my recording from St Pauls describes them as 'written for' Gloucester, which contradicts this version!). However, there can be no doubt that the Gloucester set is well suited to its building, making use of the same style of ethereal opening as the Coll Reg set. It also seems beyond doubt (from what I've read, at least) that Coll Reg, St Pauls and New College were all written specifically for the buildings, rather than being dedicated later, so in that sense the point still stands.

As I said, it is merely a point of interest from my perspective regarding buildings and acoustics - many Cathedrals will sing the contrasting settings and so they should when they are such good music. I still remain convinced that the Gloucester setting is the best there is, bar after bar is pure magic, and I'm looking forward to hearing Southwell's account of them on Sunday afternoon.

[Gabriel Jackson]

Indeed, this is true - see http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dw...55_66305&vw=dc, which is an introduction to the Gloucester Service; in particular 'Although the dedication is to Gloucester Cathedral, it was not composed to fulfil a commission, but in the wake of the success of the Collegium Regale set, written for King’s College, Cambridge in 1945' which perhaps illustrates the point (interestingly, the notes on my recording from St Pauls describes them as 'written for' Gloucester, which contradicts this version!). However, there can be no doubt that the Gloucester set is well suited to its building, making use of the same style of ethereal opening as the Coll Reg set. It also seems beyond doubt (from what I've read, at least) that Coll Reg, St Pauls and New College were all written specifically for the buildings, rather than being dedicated later, so in that sense the point still stands.

As I said, it is merely a point of interest from my perspective regarding buildings and acoustics - many Cathedrals will sing the contrasting settings and so they should when they are such good music. I still remain convinced that the Gloucester setting is the best there is, bar after bar is pure magic, and I'm looking forward to hearing Southwell's account of them on Sunday afternoon.

The quoted sentence is not very well written(!) but "written for King's College, Cambridge in 1945" refers to Collegium Regale!

[ardcarp]

Seems he was on to a good wheeze there, GJ. Why don't you give it a go?

[Gabriel Jackson]

Seems he was on to a good wheeze there, GJ. Why don't you give it a go?

Don't need to - everything I do is asked for!

[ardcarp]

PS That was in reply to #20

[DracoM]

< Don't need to - everything I do is asked for! >

Gosh! How do you keep up with the demands? Respect.

[Gabriel Jackson]

PS That was in reply to #20

??!